Jack Cavanaugh; Gerry Burrows


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Kurt collection. 

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Of The Pioneers of Selkirk communications. 

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The following interview with Jack Kavanaugh was recorded on January 28, 1978 by **** Meisner. 

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And an interview with Jack Cavanaugh. 

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Jack, good morning. I can’t. 

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Tell you how delighted I am to have you among me and many people that I’ve had an opportunity to talk with. 

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In the last few months. 

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If for no other reason, and there are lots of reasons, but if for no other reason that you were practically. 

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The first or one of the very first members of the organization. 

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I guess Harold Carson started. 

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And then became Taylor Pearson and Carson, and then an organization called All Canada Radio with. 

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Became part of it, and today, of course the whole thing is out of the umbrella. 

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And so Kurt holdings. 

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What year roughly do you recall having started with Harold Carson? 

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Our guess, yes, I guess with. 

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Carson, well, with all Canada, actually. And remember February 1936. 

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Over 36, but you were. 

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Scenography I took a sonographers course after the depression. 

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Oh yeah. 

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And then I got asked Carson if there was a chance I met. 

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Him one day. 

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In the hall. 

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And I said it’s your chance getting the job with you. 

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And he said, oh, sure, we’re going to start transcriptions. 

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So he started to bring them in from CP McGregor. 

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I guess it was. 

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Yes, yes. 

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And Evan said hosting McGregor and garden in Burbank Way. 

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Which nobody’s heard him these days. 

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So I started there at $40 a month, which was big money then. 

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You better believe it. 

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And I had more money to spend, I think, than I did. 

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Oh, on. 

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Well, now I get lots of money to. 

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Spend doesn’t bother me. 

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But before it was tough. 

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And I started. 

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The first discs that ever came in and we had to clear them through the customs. 

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And then all the fellow that started before me of course, would be Elf Gibson. 

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That was so respected throughout the organization, you know. 

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Yes, of course I remember. 

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I remember house name very well. 

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I don’t think I ever. 

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Met him all. 

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Oh, he was Prince of the gay. 

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And so he was the office manager and accountant and everything you see in Kelvin. 

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But this was in Calgary, not leverage. 

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Oh, no. 

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Everything was accounted when Kirsten set up the all candid. 

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Yes, yes. 

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Affiliated with the name in Winnipeg for all canned it was. 

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The United broadcast sales no. 

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Even before UBS. 

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Ohh really? 

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And it’s something like all Canada. 

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But these Richardsons in Winnipeg had the the company. 

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Ohh yes, yes, yes, of course yes. 

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I guess. 

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Well, Jack, really, when you think back on it from 1936? 

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To the time of your retirement. 

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Which was I think you said about four years ago, puts it at about. 

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74 That’s about doing that retirement, but still. 

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That’s a pretty fair span of time, isn’t. 

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It that’s a. 

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Long time you weren’t exactly jumping from job to job. 

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You kind of stayed put with the one company. 

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I sort of. 

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Which is, which is a good thing. 

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Now I don’t have to worry. 

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Fair pension and. 

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Few things that I don’t have to worry. 

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About money, most demanding thing on your life these days, I gather, is whether or not it’s going to. 

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Be good for skiing tomorrow. 

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That’s all I worry about. 

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Is the weather now, which is not too bad. 

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Jack, who were among the first people. 

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In the organization at the time that that you joined Harold Carson, you spoke person Gainer as. 

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One of them. 

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Well, first was in Calgary and I think he came from Lethbridge manager. 

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There. Oh yes. 

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And I think he managed to see if they see for. 

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A few months. 

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And I’m not sure if it was. 

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1st and then tiny elfiq. 

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Then followed by Gordon Henry. 

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His managers. 

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Funny how purse. 

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He worked in Calgary for a while and he’d go out on these Rd. 

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trips with Carson, which was a big thing in those days selling shows and they’d wire back. 

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Of course. 

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And he was such an. 

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Excitable guy, you. 

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Know he was jumping all over him. 

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I know. 

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He was funny. 

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And I’d have packed the disks. 

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And shipped them out and things like that. 

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And then he was transferred. 

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To open the Toronto office and they started representation then too. 

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And it’s single program. 

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And so just before he left, they hired a fellow by the name of Fred. 

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I saw Fred in Victoria last week. 

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Is he still alive? 

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Oh, that’s. 

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Yes, good. 

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Very much so. 

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Oh, what’s that? 

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He spent a delightful evening with with Fred and Merle, his wife. 

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No, that’s good. 

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And we chatted and. 

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Got some good material. 

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So he was the one that was handled, hired in Calgary and he was my boss because I was a little too young. 

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I didn’t have any. 

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And he was a school teacher, you know. 

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Hell of a guy to work for. 

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I was glad when. 

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They sent him least I liked. 

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I liked him, but he had this school. 

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Yes, yes. 

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And I was too, from beans in those days. 

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There was always my motorcycling days. 

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Ah, see when I get there. 

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So after Fred was finally sent East. 

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Then they hired the chap that everybody knows well as Eric Williams. 

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Yes, I see Eric fairly often in Toronto, yes. 

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He still works for the company, doesn’t he? 

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No, he. 

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He retired from the company. 

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But for. 

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And he’s working on a sort of part time basis with Doc Murray, you remember. 

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Doc, be with that film company. 

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What was it then? 

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The other offshoot of all Canada. 

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Or quality. 

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No, no, no. 

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The Robert Lawrence and Lawrence. 

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He used to do a bit of work for them. 

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Yes, yes, that’s true, we did. 

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So Eric and I would funny. 

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They used to call us the old Cam, the twins, because we’re exactly the same age. 

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Yeah, yeah. 

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The same birthdays and everything. 

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Ohh, yeah. 

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So we didn’t find out for a year or two later. 

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Isn’t that a funny coincidence? 

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And he was a good. 

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Fella. Oh yeah. 

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And then. 

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Those were the main ones that were hired in all Canada through Calgary and that worked with Carson. 

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Well then spanning those years. 

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What was your broad function say in the 10 years before you retired? 

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Well, first of all, I started out shipping. 

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And then when Fred Cain went, EI took over the handling of. 

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Sails in the Western Canada for the radio programs and in those days we didn’t do any station time at all. 

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And then it developed in East and they didn’t bother with giving me. 

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Much so. 

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I just stirred it out on my own, really. 

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And I didn’t have proper forms and I got the idea of booking times, you know, and I’d squeeze in at the agencies and I worked. 

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In there eventually. 

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But it was done all in my own in the West, except in Winnipeg. 

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Then eventually get per Skinner, you see, was transferred back to Winnipeg? 

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And the guy. 

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Herbert, I saw the first time I met Guy Herbert was when he was. 

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Handling, I guess the commercial aspects of CKY and not telephone. 

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Station at that time. 

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Oh, that’s right dear. 

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And that would be about 193736 or 37. 

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So it was the programming. 

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Then I broke into. 

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They’re working up their station time. 

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And it didn’t develop really till after the war. 

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Then I got enough that it was really starting to pay. 

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And then again, the programs always make some real sales. 

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I handled all of that. 

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The library for Western Canada, yes. 

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And actually, we’re pretty did selling in Winnipeg not to any great extent, I’d do that. 

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I’d write mainly all the letters, sales letters and everything and sell them all from Calgary. 

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Really, even in Vancouver too. 

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And I used to make trips around the country. 

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Pretty wild ones at times. 

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Yes, yes, I know. 

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We do the business first and then we just kept loose, you know, and. 

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Stay up all night. 

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So you were the All Canada office West of Toronto really because? 

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Vancouver has only in relatively recent years expanded into being in office. 

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Yeah, it was Baldwin, yes. 

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But he was a great golfer, you know. 

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And he didn’t do too much business. 

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He did a fair bit. 

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But yeah, mine did the golfing that helped the. 

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Business awkward? Well, one rationalizes. 

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And then, of course, when TV came. 

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I I took over the sailor films in Western Canada. 

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You know, we started out. 

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With the ZEV and a few things like that. 

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And we’d sell them even before TV was on the air. 

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I’d go up to Edmonton, for instance, and. 

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Pretty novel in those days. 

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Invite the clients you know, find out who the clients might be. 

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Invite them up to the room for breakfast in the morning, bring their wives and show the film at the same time. 

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Yeah, you see it flattered the wives and there’s the husband. 

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He’d have to buy. 

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So Phillimon was good in those days. 

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You were involved then? 

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Throughout at least the latter half of your long stint. 

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With both program and time sales. 

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Until your retirement and I guess. 

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When you retired, Bob Johnson came out from Toronto. 

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Yeah, he came out for a year and I just introduced him to all the accounts and so on that I build up in the agencies and and then. 

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He took over from there. 

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The last. 

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Four years there that I was in. 

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Working, say from 72 to 74 or 71. 

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The TV programs fell off because they all canned. 

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Pretty well got. 

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Out of it, yes. 

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So then we just concentrate mainly on station time. 

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We didn’t sell any programs at all. 

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Of course. 

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Radio dropped off 10 years before higher than that. 

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But I used to go around. 

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Sell everything. 

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Jack among the people with whom you worked and were associated here in Calgary. 

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Back in the those early days that we’ve been speaking about. 

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Was, I believe Jack Dennis, the late Jack Dennis. 

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Yeah, he was a. 

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Very good friend of mine and. 

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He didn’t get an awful lot of education because he came around. 

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The studios all the time he was interested in announcing yes, and he worked into that part time and then eventually full time. 

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And oh, he was well, one of the tops and then another guy that was the same class and Bob Freeland. 

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I want to do. 

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Of wild character. 

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Indeed, the stories about Freeland are legion. 

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He was. 

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The top guy, but the money went to his. 

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Head in the drink talking about him yesterday. 

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Bob Freeland and Leo trainer Leo train. 

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The your trainer was another one that was. 

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On a for. 

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That’s right. 

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He’d go through the Texaco newscast. 

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Never ever read the notes or anything you would so well read and just never make a mistake. 

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I know he was incredible. 

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I he he worked for me in Vancouver at one point in time and I got to know him quite well. 

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And I’ve never seen a man quite like trainer. 

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In that he could be. 

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Five days into a binge, if you like and incoherent until you propped them up behind a microphone, turn the mic on and all of a sudden he was on stage and it came across fine, so that he finished, he was stoned again. 

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Just put. 

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Another fellow word CFC. My sister was secretary then to Guy Herbert and also to tiny. 

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And it was Eric McLeod. 

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He was a. 

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Sales manager here once. 

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So as a result I had a big home where my parents lived. 

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And this would be in about 19. 

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35 or 36 when they had this cross, Canada. 

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Greetings from the queen and everybody came in in different cities across Canada. 

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Yes, a whole bunch of guy, Herbert and Chestnuts and Carson and everybody were up at my house. 

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And that originated was the Christmas breakfast. 

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There was Bob Freeman, because I remember there was a big fight that night with Freeland in the cloud. 


He got his. 

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It can open. 

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And I have on tape the. 

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A classic Christmas story of the train up, but. 

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You know. 

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Where they. 

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The the regular scheduled transatlantic train. 

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Wasn’t able to get through because of snow. 

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And they backed a guard engine and a couple of freight cars past the mikes to simulate the. 

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A transatlantic train. 

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You don’t remember that story? 

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I’m not too sure. 

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That tiny was involved in it, and Norm Botro was there. 

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I’m Bob Freeland was there. 

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At Field field field. 

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Go in. 

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That’s the divisional point. 

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Yeah, that’s right. 

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Another one I had to. 

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See just after coming back from the war. 

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And I was able to get quite a lot of liquor and then all the managers they sent in their liquor, Calgary and I bought a brand new for it, you know that I was able to work after getting out of the Air Force. 

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So just about tilted Cochrane or someplace that blew a tire. 

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And this was pretty well known, but they had all the liquor for the convention at the bank. 

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And here the Mounties came, and they even help me. 

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This is a real, actual story. 

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The Mounties helped me take the liquor out of the car and help me fix the tire, put a bag. 

00:15:27 Speaker 3 

And it was illegal to have all that liquor. 

00:15:30 Speaker 3 

But you don’t know everybody in radio will remember that. 

00:15:34 Speaker 3 

Because it was shortly after. 

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The war when? 

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Bottles we section. 

00:15:38 Speaker 2 

Demand yes, yes. 

00:15:41 Speaker 3 

I was Carson’s liquor man, of course. 

00:15:45 Speaker 2 

Oh, that, that that’s kind of fun. 

00:15:49 Speaker 2 

So you worked really throughout your? 

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Time with the company. 

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Entirely out of the Calgary office. 

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Strictly in the Calgary, you. 

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Know whereas a lot of the managers you know kept being lured around all over Hells, half acre from Hamilton to Victoria. 

00:16:04 Speaker 3 

Oh, they’re they’re moving from all. 

00:16:09 Speaker 3 

And then I’d be in the office, you see, and that’s why we had a big boardroom there for quite a long time, when Carson had had the managers meetings. 

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And you see the man you just said come and talk to me because they just be waiting. 

00:16:21 Speaker 3 

Returning, like going in to see a king or. 

00:16:23 Speaker 3 

Something going in for their raises. 

00:16:23 Speaker 2 

Yes, yes, exactly. 

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And all this stuff and. 

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So I got to know every manager real well, you know, because not only that, but they might take a lot and. 

00:16:37 Speaker 3 

Another thing you can ask Steve Mackay at the time I took him hunting. 

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And he’d never done any hunting in his life. 

00:16:45 Speaker 3 

So we started out and it was going to be a good shoot, but then everything froze up that night. 

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So I knew the country really. 

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So I could load Strathmore and it was frozen there. 

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And I’ll go down to. 

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To bulk and Nat and so on. 

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And we came back and said. 

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Oh, maybe. 

00:17:02 Speaker 3 

10 or 15 ducks and 10 pheasants. 

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Partridge and he got his first duck. 

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You know he was in the Bush and I showed him how to hold it. 

00:17:09 Speaker 3 

Boom came down. 

00:17:10 Speaker 3 

He didn’t. 

00:17:10 Speaker 3 

What happened but. 

00:17:13 Speaker 3 

And also I used to send. 

00:17:16 Speaker 3 

Oh, I sent him about 50 or 60 ducks one time for a duck dinner. 

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I tend them down east because. 

00:17:24 Speaker 3 

These would be all plucked, you see and. 

00:17:25 Speaker 3 

They were. 

00:17:26 Speaker 3 

I used to shoot for Carson and supply him ducks and. 

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He’s flying shells. 

00:17:31 Speaker 3 

He was great. Good. 

00:17:33 Speaker 3 

Oh, and Hugh Pearson. 

00:17:35 Speaker 3 

He was a good hunter, so he wouldn’t mind if I’d take a few days off, either go hunting couple times I’d gone out. 

00:17:43 Speaker 3 

You know him? 

00:17:44 Speaker 3 

He’s quick to have stopped turning now because he’s. 

00:17:48 Speaker 3 

Hit the peak, Higgins. 

00:17:52 Speaker 2 

Jack I being. 

00:17:55 Speaker 2 

Doing a little investigative work around Calgary and. 

00:18:01 Speaker 2 

I hear that that you’re enjoying retirement like every man. 

00:18:06 Speaker 2 

Or a woman should. 

00:18:09 Speaker 2 

Doing exactly what you want to do when you want to. 

00:18:11 Speaker 2 

Do it and having a ball. 

00:18:14 Speaker 1 


00:18:14 Speaker 2 

Skiing summer and winter water skiing, snow skiing. 

00:18:20 Speaker 3 

I took that up this year. 

00:18:22 Speaker 3 

And I can beat the average fella at least. 

00:18:24 Speaker 3 

Oh, yeah. 

00:18:25 Speaker 3 

I go for two hours. 

00:18:27 Speaker 3 

So what do I do? 

00:18:28 Speaker 3 

One morning I go for two mile run. 

00:18:31 Speaker 3 

The lake. 

00:18:32 Speaker 3 

Down the beach and then on eighteen holes at least. 

00:18:36 Speaker 3 

And then a couple of hours of tennis. 

00:18:38 Speaker 3 

And then I’ll. 

00:18:39 Speaker 3 

Water ski all afternoon. 

00:18:41 Speaker 3 

I’ll ski. 

00:18:44 Speaker 3 

35 miles is nothing, you know, they just just long, skinny. I wouldn’t. Couldn’t use two squeeze anymore. Just the one ski and the little bit of jumping. 

00:18:55 Speaker 3 

A lot of I like heavy water. 

00:18:58 Speaker 3 

Which the average guy doesn’t. 

00:19:00 Speaker 2 

And you ski, I gather, just about every day, all winter. 

00:19:04 Speaker 2 

Unless there happens to be a except the Blizzard of all time. 

00:19:06 Speaker 3 

Weekends, when it’s crowded. 

00:19:09 Speaker 3 

And then. 

00:19:10 Speaker 3 

See, I was in Europe last year and I took every place in Europe. 

00:19:13 Speaker 3 

There is did you, Austria, Italy. 

00:19:17 Speaker 3 

From Austria to Italy and then back to Austria and then into Switzerland, Germany, which is. 

00:19:22 Speaker 3 

The greatest place. 

00:19:23 Speaker 3 

In the world. Beautiful. 

00:19:25 Speaker 3 

Skied over there. 

00:19:28 Speaker 3 

Different Alps from Switzerland down into Italy. 

00:19:32 Speaker 3 

Stayed in Italy for a week or 10 days and then I’d go up and ski down over Mount Glonk, which you have to have a guide because there’s glasses thousands of feet deep. 

00:19:42 Speaker 3 

Storms takes about four hours to go down, came back and helicopter skied for two weeks. 

00:19:46 Speaker 1 

All right. 

00:19:49 Speaker 2 

It’s almost immoral that one man should be having as much. 

00:19:52 Speaker 2 

Fun as you should be. 

00:19:56 Speaker 2 

But that’s just delightful. 

00:19:58 Speaker 2 

You pay your dues. 

00:20:04 Speaker 3 

But the best the greatest you know, is this helicopter skiing. 

00:20:09 Speaker 3 

It’s it’s tough. 

00:20:10 Speaker 3 

The average guy can’t do it. 

00:20:12 Speaker 3 

You have to be able to ski. 

00:20:13 Speaker 3 

Powder, yes. 

00:20:14 Speaker 3 

So your legs have got to be in good shape and you have to. 

00:20:18 Speaker 3 

You can’t be scared of it or anything. 

00:20:19 Speaker 3 

You know? 

00:20:19 Speaker 3 

You just gotta pretend you’re boss. 

00:20:22 Speaker 3 

Lose the odd ski and. 

00:20:25 Speaker 2 

Where do you do? 

00:20:26 Speaker 2 

This in the bugaboo. 

00:20:29 Speaker 3 

Where bugaboos. 

00:20:31 Speaker 2 

I’m a stranger. 

00:20:32 Speaker 3 

Oh well, it’s way up in. 

00:20:33 Speaker 2 

To stay country. 

00:20:33 Speaker 3 

More than BC and. 

00:20:36 Speaker 3 

It’s called the the bugaboos. 

00:20:37 Speaker 3 

Oh yeah. 

00:20:39 Speaker 3 

And you can go. 

00:20:39 Speaker 3 

In there. 

00:20:42 Speaker 3 

There’s the bugaboo lodge. That’s the best place for helicopter ski. And then you can ski all day. They’ll guarantee a minimum of 100,000. 

00:20:51 Speaker 3 

So it skied. 

00:20:54 Speaker 3 

Well, first week was about 135,000 because there was two bad days. The next week I was. 

00:21:01 Speaker 3 

Round the 200,000 mark. 

00:21:03 Speaker 3 

That’s where we go. 

00:21:04 Speaker 2 

You say 200,000. That’s 200,000 feet of. 

00:21:08 Speaker 3 

Downhill run. So you see 200,000 there to be. 

00:21:14 Speaker 3 

You couldn’t classify that in actual running, running and maybe be. 

00:21:21 Speaker 3 

5 or 600,000 but this is vertical drop straight down. 

00:21:27 Speaker 2 

Have you ever become involved in competitive skiing or do? 

00:21:31 Speaker 2 

You do it just. 

00:21:32 Speaker 3 

This is for me. 

00:21:32 Speaker 2 

The Jack Kavanaugh. 

00:21:34 Speaker 3 

And then Noel going into. 

00:21:35 Speaker 3 

What they call. 

00:21:36 Speaker 3 

These races, you know, molesters and so on. 

00:21:39 Speaker 2 

Yes, yes. 

00:21:41 Speaker 3 

But I don’t know the young guys, they’re. 

00:21:44 Speaker 3 

Too hot to compete against? 

00:21:46 Speaker 3 

I disturbed him. 

00:21:48 Speaker 3 

30 years ago I’d be in there. 

00:21:52 Speaker 3 

Not not very many passes. 

00:21:55 Speaker 2 

Do you have any? 

00:21:57 Speaker 2 

Any feeling of? 

00:22:00 Speaker 2 

Loss or regret or? 

00:22:04 Speaker 2 

Anything lacking in your lifestyle today. 

00:22:09 Speaker 2 

As a result of no longer being directly involved in business. 

00:22:13 Speaker 3 

Oh no. 

00:22:15 Speaker 3 

Feel better? 

00:22:16 Speaker 3 

It’s in fact, I haven’t any spare time. 

00:22:18 Speaker 3 

I thought when I’d retire, I’d be able to do some work. 

00:22:21 Speaker 3 

In the basement, look. 

00:22:22 Speaker 3 

At all the tools you could think of woodworking tools and. 

00:22:27 Speaker 3 

I never ever get down there in time. 

00:22:29 Speaker 3 

There’s one that was working. 

00:22:33 Speaker 2 

Well, the spare time today is the is yours to make available whenever you want to. 

00:22:39 Speaker 2 

So obviously you’d rather ski than working in the workshop. 

00:22:42 Speaker 3 

Yes. Yeah, but. 

00:22:44 Speaker 3 

You know, we like it too old then I’ll. 

00:22:48 Speaker 3 

Work in basement. 

00:22:49 Speaker 2 

You mean another 20 or 30 years? 

00:22:52 Speaker 3 

I break leg bad. 

00:22:56 Speaker 3 

Well, but I at least see an awful lot of people too. 

00:23:00 Speaker 3 

On the ski slopes, which is so interesting. 

00:23:02 Speaker 2 

Yes, of course. 

00:23:03 Speaker 3 

And I, you know, always, I never go up alone very often on a a lift. 

00:23:09 Speaker 3 

I always wait to get someone even if. 

00:23:10 Speaker 3 

It isn’t crowded. 

00:23:12 Speaker 3 

And then you should breeze. 

00:23:13 Speaker 3 

You see. 

00:23:15 Speaker 3 

Because you can always find something to talk about. 

00:23:18 Speaker 3 

Before I. 

00:23:20 Speaker 3 

Did like skiing? 

00:23:21 Speaker 3 

Well, you wouldn’t know what the heck to say now? 

00:23:25 Speaker 3 

The lifts are too short. 

00:23:27 Speaker 2 

I think perhaps Bob Johnson who? 

00:23:34 Speaker 2 

Tried to fill some of your footsteps and they Calgary office of All Canada. 

00:23:42 Speaker 2 

Actually, Bob was telling me that that you maintained a. 

00:23:46 Speaker 2 

A trailer right up in ski country so that you don’t even have to waste time getting there. 

00:23:50 Speaker 3 

Oh yeah, I’ve got a superview. 

00:23:54 Speaker 3 

See, I just came back from San Diego. 

00:23:58 Speaker 3 

Well, like 15th of January. 

00:24:01 Speaker 3 

So I went down there in the middle of November. 

00:24:03 Speaker 3 

Took my water. 

00:24:05 Speaker 3 

See, I just use one ski. 

00:24:07 Speaker 3 

Tennis racket, golf clubs and my snow skis. 

00:24:11 Speaker 3 

I was getting pretty hot in golf. 

00:24:13 Speaker 3 

I was playing a lot of the courses around. 

00:24:15 Speaker 3 

Perry, you know, yes. 

00:24:17 Speaker 3 

And then on the way. 

00:24:18 Speaker 3 

Back I ski at Salt Lake City. 

00:24:21 Speaker 3 

And Snowbird, no numerous places. 

00:24:24 Speaker 3 

And then I went into Idaho and Sun Valley, Jackson Hole, and I just. 

00:24:29 Speaker 3 

Had only came back. 

00:24:30 Speaker 3 

10 days and I gained at the mountains. 

00:24:33 Speaker 3 

Of six of them. 

00:24:36 Speaker 2 

Paid my bills and started out. 

00:24:38 Speaker 2 

I get a very clear impression that that you had a lot of fun during the time you’re in broadcasting, which you’re having a lot more. 

00:24:45 Speaker 3 

Fun now different kind of time. 

00:24:47 Speaker 3 

You know, this is physical exercise. 

00:24:51 Speaker 2 

You’re sure it is? 

00:24:51 Speaker 2 

That’s not why you do it like you enjoy. 

00:24:53 Speaker 2 

You do it because you’re enjoying it so much. 

00:24:56 Speaker 3 

And I like to keep active. 

00:24:59 Speaker 3 

But this van hits, it’s all insulated. 

00:25:02 Speaker 3 

You see underneath foam. 

00:25:04 Speaker 3 

And all through the. 

00:25:05 Speaker 3 

Walls and the mahogany wood on the side and. 

00:25:08 Speaker 3 

It’s got air conditioning. I never use that much. And then the furnace with the thermostat, I can stay out 25 below. 

00:25:18 Speaker 3 

Stoves to burning toilets and sleep for if I want and. 

00:25:27 Speaker 3 

It’s only it’s one you’ve seen these at the big high top, you know the maximum. 

00:25:31 Speaker 2 

Yes, yes. 

00:25:35 Speaker 3 

Oh, I take them. 

00:25:36 Speaker 3 

The different fellows they taking John McCall, you. 

00:25:37 Speaker 3 

Know see if they see out for. 

00:25:41 Speaker 3 

Two or three times overnight, you know. 

00:25:45 Speaker 3 

Give him a bad run, I’d. 

00:25:46 Speaker 3 

Like to see him? 

00:25:47 Speaker 3 

Work hard to try to keep up. 

00:25:51 Speaker 2 

Well, Jack, if my complexion seems to be changing color somewhat, I’m sure it is because I’m green with envy it. 

00:25:58 Speaker 2 

At the lifestyle that you’ve. 

00:26:04 Speaker 2 

I don’t think really there’s anything new about your enjoyment of life. 

00:26:09 Speaker 2 

Ice effects. 

00:26:09 Speaker 2 

You always have. 

00:26:10 Speaker 2 

You’re just doing it in a different way than you did before you retired. 

00:26:16 Speaker 2 

Jack, thank you so much for coming in this morning. 

00:26:18 Speaker 2 

It’s been delightful to. 

00:26:20 Speaker 2 

To chat with you. 

00:26:21 Speaker 2 

And as I say, I. 

00:26:23 Speaker 2 

Return to eastern Canada. 

00:26:25 Speaker 2 

Full of envy for the lifestyle of Jack Cavanaugh. 

00:26:28 Speaker 3 

Well, thanks very much, Nick. 

00:26:29 Speaker 3 

It was a pleasure. 

00:26:32 Speaker 1 

This interview was recorded in 1978 by **** Meister. 

Part 2


00:00:02 Speaker 1 

The Selkirk collection. 

00:00:06 Speaker 1 

Of The Pioneers of Selkirk communications. 

00:00:12 Speaker 1 

The following interview with Jerry Burrows was recorded in March 1978 by **** Meisner. 

00:00:24 Speaker 2 

This is Monday, March the 20th, first day of spring. 

00:00:30 Speaker 2 

And I was sitting about to talk to. 

00:00:33 Speaker 2 

And old, old, old friends to Jerry Burroughs. 

00:00:38 Speaker 2 

Who is manager of office services in the Toronto Office of All Canada Radio on television? 

00:00:48 Speaker 2 

Jerry, we go back a long time. 

00:00:51 Speaker 3 

Too long. 

00:00:52 Speaker 2 

Not too long. 

00:00:54 Speaker 2 

It’s amazing how the year is telescope. 

00:00:58 Speaker 2 

And it doesn’t really seem that long. 

00:01:01 Speaker 2 

I first. 

00:01:03 Speaker 2 

Knew you, and mostly at a distance in an arms length sort of situation. 

00:01:07 Speaker 2 

When you run Montreal. 

00:01:10 Speaker 2 

And I guess I was on the West Coast or somewhere out in Western Canada, sure. 

00:01:16 Speaker 2 

And apart from your own personal involvement, one of the. 

00:01:23 Speaker 2 

Reasons that I have wanted so much to talk to you today is that because you knew Bert Hall so well. 

00:01:30 Speaker 2 

And like too many of our former colleagues, Bert Hall isn’t around to answer for himself. 

00:01:39 Speaker 2 

So I’d like to talk to you about Gary Brose and about Burt Hall. 

00:01:46 Speaker 2 

And other recollections that come to your mind about your days with this company. 

00:01:50 Speaker 2 

How long have you been with all? 

00:01:52 Speaker 2 

Canada, by the way. 

00:01:57 Speaker 3 

I’m not too, you know, I’m not really too sure about holistic. 

00:02:03 Speaker 3 

I think it was. 

00:02:05 Speaker 3 

I started 1937 with Mckim advertising in Montreal. 

00:02:12 Speaker 3 

And I went to 1940. 

00:02:15 Speaker 3 

From 1940 to 1945, I was with the Royal Canadian Navy. 

00:02:22 Speaker 3 

When I got through with the Navy, I came out and I went back to Mckimm’s. 

00:02:27 Speaker 3 

And I started in Mckimm’s at 1945, went through to 1948. 

00:02:34 Speaker 3 

At the end of 48, I joined all Canada. 

00:02:37 Speaker 2 

Who were that hims at that time? 

00:02:39 Speaker 2 

Who was manager then? 

00:02:40 Speaker 3 

Oh boy. 

00:02:43 Speaker 3 

I’m sorry I don’t remember who was actually manager Canada. 

00:02:50 Speaker 2 

The canvas. 

00:02:53 Speaker 3 

They were tied in with Whitehall, Whitehall and all Canada were together in the Dominion Square building. 

00:03:01 Speaker 2 

In those years and I. 

00:03:03 Speaker 2 

The agency business after his time with Whitehall. 

00:03:05 Speaker 3 

That’s right. 

00:03:07 Speaker 3 

That’s right. 

00:03:07 Speaker 3 

That’s that’s absolutely right. 

00:03:08 Speaker 2 

And Whitehall was will Sharland and Beck, George. 

00:03:12 Speaker 3 

That’s right, yes, White will. 

00:03:14 Speaker 3 

Miller at George Birchall was all on the same floor, although they were divided, there was the all calendar and the Whitehall situation, so when I left ******* and joined all Canada, it was 1948. 

00:03:30 Speaker 3 

And I stayed with all Canada to 1954. 

00:03:35 Speaker 3 

And it was during those years that I became. 

00:03:39 Speaker 3 

Or I I knew Bert Hall. 

00:03:41 Speaker 3 

Will Sherlock and Vic George very well. 

00:03:45 Speaker 2 

So you stayed with all Canada until 54 and then and then what would you? 

00:03:47 Speaker 3 


00:03:49 Speaker 3 

Then I went to Cofield Brown. 

00:03:53 Speaker 3 

As a writer, as a writer. 

00:03:59 Speaker 2 

And we’re with them until. 

00:04:02 Speaker 3 

I was with Cofield Brown until 611961. 

00:04:07 Speaker 3 

And from 61 I left Covill Brown and went to SW Caldwell. 

00:04:13 Speaker 3 

And became the manager of his office, which was a. 

00:04:18 Speaker 3 

A supplier of electronic equipment to the advertising business from 61 to 63. 

00:04:27 Speaker 3 

And when Spence decided to close off the office, things weren’t going too well, and they closed down the Montreal end. 

00:04:34 Speaker 3 

And fortunately for me. 

00:04:39 Speaker 3 

Kofi Brown was looking for somebody and I went back to Cofio Brown. 

00:04:44 Speaker 2 

I hadn’t realized this period of interruption. 

00:04:48 Speaker 3 

And from 64 to 68 I was with Cofield Brown. 

00:04:54 Speaker 3 

Things were going long. They’re pretty good and that at the end of 68. 

00:05:00 Speaker 3 

I wasn’t too happy. 

00:05:02 Speaker 3 

Excuse me. 

00:05:03 Speaker 3 

With the way things are going and an opportunity came up with Spitzer Mill and Bates. 

00:05:10 Speaker 3 

As a television. 

00:05:13 Speaker 3 

Media supervisor. 

00:05:16 Speaker 3 

Buying time for Gillette? 

00:05:20 Speaker 3 

In those days, they were doing a tremendous amount of business and vision. 

00:05:23 Speaker 3 

And radio. 

00:05:25 Speaker 3 

And I went to Spitzer Mill and Bates in 1960. 

00:05:33 Speaker 3 

The media supervisor. 

00:05:36 Speaker 2 

That was in Montreal, still. 

00:05:37 Speaker 3 

Oh boy, it was still. 

00:05:38 Speaker 2 


00:05:38 Speaker 3 

In Montreal, and it was a a woman media supervisor and so help me I can’t. 

00:05:44 Speaker 2 

Yes, I know who you mean too, and I can’t. 

00:05:46 Speaker 2 

Think of her name. 

00:05:48 Speaker 3 

Anyway anyway. 

00:05:48 Speaker 2 

Oh well. 

00:05:50 Speaker 3 

I stayed there roughly for a year, but it was not too too happy with this this. 

00:05:59 Speaker 3 

It’s very difficult to explain. 

00:06:04 Speaker 3 

I really don’t know how to explain that, but I just wasn’t happy there at all. 

00:06:09 Speaker 3 

But Peter Sisam and Dennis Fitzgerald were calling me Peter for. 

00:06:15 Speaker 3 

Radio and Dennis for television. 

00:06:18 Speaker 3 

They were calling on me for a time. 

00:06:22 Speaker 2 

Pardon, I’m sorry. 

00:06:23 Speaker 2 

I interrupted. 

00:06:24 Speaker 2 

That’s all right. 

00:06:26 Speaker 2 

The lady in question, who was the name you? 

00:06:28 Speaker 2 

Couldn’t recall with Charlotte. 

00:06:31 Speaker 2 

No, no. 

00:06:33 Speaker 3 

I wasn’t sure. 

00:06:33 Speaker 2 


00:06:37 Speaker 2 

OK, back to. 

00:06:37 Speaker 3 

Other way back, these two men were calling on me at the time. 

00:06:42 Speaker 3 

And I knew Peter pretty well from my All Canada days and at that time in all Canada here in Toronto was a man by the name of Fred Oliver. 

00:06:56 Speaker 3 

Who died in 1968, just at the end of 68. I believe now Fred was a a person such as myself. He had a a. 

00:07:10 Speaker 3 

Experience on television, radio and print. 

00:07:17 Speaker 3 

And when he died, it left quite a hole here in all county in Toronto. 

00:07:25 Speaker 3 

It’s a difficult thing to explain. 

00:07:27 Speaker 3 

He handled prints he handled. 

00:07:31 Speaker 3 

Anything that went wrong in the company, this sort of thing. 

00:07:35 Speaker 3 

And Peter was looking for somebody at that time. 

00:07:40 Speaker 2 

A man Friday and Saturday and Sunday and Monday. 

00:07:41 Speaker 3 

Ma’am, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. 

00:07:44 Speaker 3 

And Peter, realizing that I wasn’t too, too happy with Spitzer Mill and Bates said. 

00:07:50 Speaker 3 

Would you? 

00:07:51 Speaker 3 

To change your job, and I was delighted at that time. 

00:07:54 Speaker 3 

But not realizing that he meant Toronto, I thought he meant Montreal. 

00:08:01 Speaker 3 

To make a Long story short, it came out that it was for Toronto. 

00:08:05 Speaker 3 

I own my own home in in Montreal. 

00:08:08 Speaker 3 

At that time I only have one child, a boy sort of thing, and he was at McGill University at the time. 

00:08:15 Speaker 3 

And when this all came up, it became quite a. 

00:08:23 Speaker 2 

Slightly traumatic experience. 

00:08:24 Speaker 3 

And more than that, believe me, because it meant selling the house. 

00:08:28 Speaker 3 

It meant perhaps pulling him out of college. 

00:08:32 Speaker 3 

We didn’t know. 

00:08:33 Speaker 3 

But I had reached the point both in age and in the way I was working, that I wasn’t too happy and we made the decision, definitely made the decision. 

00:08:44 Speaker 3 

That we would move, we left my. 

00:08:46 Speaker 2 

Well, in retrospect, you made the right decision. 

00:08:48 Speaker 3 

We did. Unfortunately, my parents were still alive at that time, and my son went to live with them and my wife and I moved to Toronto and I came here to Canada, Toronto, June 15, 1969. 

00:09:07 Speaker 3 

Is when I am. 

00:09:09 Speaker 2 

And here we are 9. 

00:09:10 Speaker 2 

Years later and. 

00:09:10 Speaker 3 

Here we are nine years later, and I wish to heaven I had done it a long time ago, because I’ve never been happier. 

00:09:18 Speaker 3 

This has just been tremendous for me down. 

00:09:20 Speaker 3 

Here really great. 

00:09:21 Speaker 2 

You were when you were with all Canada and Montreal. 

00:09:22 Speaker 3 


00:09:25 Speaker 2 

Their offices were in the building. 

00:09:27 Speaker 3 

Dominion Square building and when I was there, I was a salesman for both radio and television. 

00:09:35 Speaker 3 

Radio first because television didn’t come till a little later, but it was strictly radio. 

00:09:39 Speaker 2 

That’s right. 

00:09:41 Speaker 2 

I remember painting. 

00:09:42 Speaker 2 


00:09:43 Speaker 3 

Yes, I’m sure you did and it was strictly radio in those days, but. 

00:09:51 Speaker 3 

Let’s talk a little bit about Bert Hall now, perhaps. 

00:09:53 Speaker 2 

Tell me something about this colorful man. 

00:09:55 Speaker 3 

This was. 

00:09:55 Speaker 2 

Yeah, I knew Bert. 

00:09:57 Speaker 2 

Of course. 

00:09:59 Speaker 3 

And saw him on more than one occasion and holding court in the Piccadilly room and he was the most unusual man I guess perhaps I would ever know. 

00:10:09 Speaker 3 

I guess I don’t know. 

00:10:11 Speaker 3 

I it’s a very difficult thing to explain. 

00:10:13 Speaker 3 

Bert Hall to you. 

00:10:16 Speaker 3 

How do you explain Burt Hall? 

00:10:18 Speaker 2 

Burt was a thespian first. 

00:10:21 Speaker 3 

Yes, very much. 

00:10:21 Speaker 2 

He was an actor first. 

00:10:23 Speaker 3 

Oh, yes, very much so. 

00:10:24 Speaker 2 

First like he was. 

00:10:24 Speaker 2 

He was on stage all his lifetime. 

00:10:27 Speaker 3 

All his life. 

00:10:27 Speaker 2 

I think one way or another. 

00:10:28 Speaker 3 

And has, yes, and his perhaps, you know, he was involved, I believe his wife was. 

00:10:33 Speaker 3 

The Singer sewing machine. 

00:10:37 Speaker 2 

That you remind me of something I’d forgotten, yeah. 

00:10:40 Speaker 3 

And his wife was the daughter of the singing sewing machine. Now, I don’t know her name. I never met her. But I did at one time, twice as a matter of fact. I met Birchall’s son. 

00:10:57 Speaker 3 

And talk to him. 

00:10:59 Speaker 3 

In the Piccadilly in Mount Dryel. 

00:11:02 Speaker 3 

But he was never in Canada that long. 

00:11:05 Speaker 3 

His son lived in Paris, France, and was always there with his mother, always, always with his mother. 

00:11:13 Speaker 3 

But Bert had a table in the. 

00:11:17 Speaker 3 

Piccadilly and it was very Paul’s table, and nobody sat at that table. Nobody ever sat at that table but Burt Hall. 

00:11:17 Speaker 2 

Like the delay launches. 

00:11:25 Speaker 3 

If you came in, Bert would. 

00:11:28 Speaker 3 

Wave his hand and unless you were invited, you did not sit down at Bert Hall. 

00:11:34 Speaker 3 

This was one of the little idiosyncrasies of Bert. 

00:11:37 Speaker 2 

I went into the Piccadilly to to see words because I knew I’d find him there at 12. 

00:11:45 Speaker 2 

Noon sort of. 

00:11:47 Speaker 2 

On occasion, on an occasion many years ago. 

00:11:55 Speaker 2 

Look for him at his table and there were strangers at his table. 

00:12:01 Speaker 2 

He had. 

00:12:04 Speaker 2 

Semi retired, I think at that time from all Canada. 

00:12:09 Speaker 2 

And I couldn’t believe my eyes when I flicked an eye around, looking for the friendly major. 

00:12:14 Speaker 2 

Do you his name? 

00:12:15 Speaker 2 

I’ve forgotten and saw Bert standing at the bar by himself. 

00:12:20 Speaker 2 

And I went over and if you ever saw a man in a foul mood, it was first of all. 

00:12:26 Speaker 2 

He was just tight lipped. 

00:12:29 Speaker 2 

He had torn the place apart rafter. 

00:12:31 Speaker 2 

From by Rafter I think, given that opportunity that. 

00:12:37 Speaker 2 

At his table. 

00:12:40 Speaker 3 

Burt was a very unusual man. 

00:12:42 Speaker 3 

I love the guy. 

00:12:43 Speaker 3 

I really did. 

00:12:46 Speaker 3 

I can tell you many, many stories about Burt. 

00:12:53 Speaker 3 

Had it a bell system in the office, which was an absolute to anybody but bird, this was the most giggly, laughable Fay in the world. 

00:13:04 Speaker 3 

But to him it wasn’t. 

00:13:07 Speaker 3 

Bert had a private office. 

00:13:09 Speaker 3 

And Burt knew every Hollywood star that ever came out of Hollywood. 

00:13:14 Speaker 3 

Bert had pitchers that ran from the baseboard to the ceiling, all in a row. 

00:13:20 Speaker 3 

Literally, there must have been fifty of them. 

00:13:23 Speaker 3 

God knows I know better than anybody because. 

00:13:26 Speaker 3 

He would go out of town and come back with these damn pictures, and I’d have to. 

00:13:30 Speaker 3 

He would give them to me and he said, Jerry, get these framed. 

00:13:33 Speaker 3 

You know what I need? 

00:13:34 Speaker 3 

You know what I want? 

00:13:35 Speaker 3 

Set them up. 

00:13:37 Speaker 3 

I would do this. The pitchers were 1/2 an inch from each other. Rolls them up, down every which way. 

00:13:47 Speaker 3 

All signed to Bert with love to. 

00:13:49 Speaker 3 

Bert, with respect, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 

00:13:53 Speaker 3 

4 walls were lined with these pictures. 

00:14:00 Speaker 2 

I was a passion that he should have with Guy Herbert. 

00:14:02 Speaker 3 

Yes, it was it. 

00:14:04 Speaker 3 

It really was. 

00:14:05 Speaker 3 

And I knew guy too. 

00:14:06 Speaker 3 

Yeah, very well. 

00:14:07 Speaker 3 

Guy and Bert and I. 

00:14:09 Speaker 3 

I can remember many, many conventions that we were on. 

00:14:13 Speaker 3 

These two men were just fantastic, really were fantastic. 

00:14:17 Speaker 3 

I don’t know. 

00:14:17 Speaker 3 

I learned an awful lot from these two fellas. 

00:14:20 Speaker 3 

But getting back to Bert for a moment. 

00:14:24 Speaker 3 

I can remember getting getting back again to the bell system. 

00:14:27 Speaker 3 

This was a not bell, they were gongs. 

00:14:32 Speaker 3 

He had on his desk. 

00:14:35 Speaker 3 


00:14:37 Speaker 3 

It had 1234. 

00:14:42 Speaker 3 

And these went out to everybody’s desk. 

00:14:45 Speaker 3 

I can remember mine was three. 

00:14:46 Speaker 3 

It would go Bongo bongo. 

00:14:50 Speaker 3 

And when that happened, I was to go in. 

00:14:53 Speaker 3 

His secretary was one which was found. 

00:14:57 Speaker 3 

This sort of thing all of us when we were there and that this, and I am sure you’d be interested in. 

00:15:03 Speaker 2 

Georgie gravel. 

00:15:04 Speaker 2 

Yes, I knew Georgie. 

00:15:06 Speaker 3 

George Duval. 

00:15:08 Speaker 3 

Was Bridge hall secretary. 

00:15:11 Speaker 3 

There was another girl called Miss Moffett, a French girl who was never anything to look at, but one of the finest persons I’ve ever met in so far as is working. 

00:15:22 Speaker 3 

And Burton knew this and Georgie and Jeanette Jeanette Moffett were the two mainstays. 

00:15:29 Speaker 3 

And I was the only salesman that was the staff back in those days. 

00:15:34 Speaker 3 

That’s all there was. 

00:15:35 Speaker 3 

And believe me, we turned out an awful lot of work. 

00:15:39 Speaker 3 

You wouldn’t believe it. 

00:15:42 Speaker 3 

There are many, many things, and it’s hard to put it into sequence for you. 

00:15:46 Speaker 3 

I can remember so well the day when we we hired a man by the. 

00:15:51 Speaker 3 

Name of Claire Copeland. 

00:15:53 Speaker 2 

I saw Claire when I was in Victoria about two months ago. 

00:15:56 Speaker 3 

All right. 

00:15:57 Speaker 3 

Claire was an exuberant young bouncy. 

00:16:02 Speaker 3 

Noisy person which drove Burt Hall just about out of his damn mind. 

00:16:10 Speaker 3 

Claire was. 

00:16:12 Speaker 3 

A pusher. 

00:16:15 Speaker 3 

Claire was the type of guy his desk was against the wall of Bertzi office where Bert had all his pitchers. 

00:16:21 Speaker 3 

Claire never closed the door. 

00:16:23 Speaker 3 

He slammed the door shut. 

00:16:25 Speaker 3 

He would slam the door shut. 

00:16:28 Speaker 3 

Bird halls, pitchers would all go. 

00:16:32 Speaker 3 

Next thing would go the Bong Bong Bang and Burt would say Jerry, we gotta do something about Claire. 

00:16:39 Speaker 3 

Look at the pictures. 

00:16:41 Speaker 3 

Would be this way. 

00:16:43 Speaker 3 

We’d straighten the pictures and he’d have a few words with Claire and the next morning Claire would close the door and the pictures would go. 

00:16:52 Speaker 3 

This went on for an awful long time until Claire was. 

00:16:56 Speaker 3 

I think he went to Vancouver. 

00:16:59 Speaker 3 

This sort of thing. 

00:17:02 Speaker 3 

To just to give you an idea of very. 

00:17:05 Speaker 2 

Bird was meticulous and everything I would imagine. 

00:17:10 Speaker 3 

I can tell you an awful. 

00:17:11 Speaker 3 

Lot about that. 

00:17:11 Speaker 2 

Certainly very meticulous in his dress. 

00:17:16 Speaker 3 

I know that. 

00:17:16 Speaker 2 

He was the fashion blade of the company. 

00:17:18 Speaker 3 

He very much so when Bert wasn’t too well, I went to his apartment many times. 

00:17:27 Speaker 3 

To bring things to him. 

00:17:31 Speaker 3 

Georgie Gurval in those days looked after him. 

00:17:33 Speaker 3 

His mother was alive in those days. 

00:17:36 Speaker 3 

She was well in her 80s. 

00:17:39 Speaker 3 

Bert looked after his mother like you wouldn’t believe. 

00:17:41 Speaker 3 

It was almost ridiculous because. 

00:17:45 Speaker 3 

But but take his mother out and say I think you need a new dress, or he’d do this every third week or something. 

00:17:50 Speaker 3 

And the woman had. 

00:17:52 Speaker 3 

A closet full of dresses she had never worn, and she would have shoes too many pairs of shoes that she never used, but this was Burt looked after his mother. 

00:18:04 Speaker 2 

I didn’t realize the birth mother had lived in Montreal. 

00:18:07 Speaker 3 

Oh yes, he lived with his. 

00:18:08 Speaker 3 

Mother in an apartment? Yes. 

00:18:11 Speaker 3 

And after she died. 

00:18:14 Speaker 3 

And when Burt was not well, and I went up to Burt’s apartment sometimes. 

00:18:23 Speaker 3 

I took some of his I took some of his laundry out for him and had it cleaned, and I brought it back. 

00:18:29 Speaker 3 

And I put it away for him. 

00:18:31 Speaker 3 

I realized what a meticulous man this guy was. 

00:18:35 Speaker 3 

The top drawer of his Bureau would be handkerchiefs and nothing but all in order. 

00:18:41 Speaker 3 

The next door would be socks, all in order. 

00:18:46 Speaker 3 

Shirts would be all in order. 

00:18:49 Speaker 3 

And so on. 

00:18:52 Speaker 3 

His suits were meticulously hung, all in order. 

00:18:57 Speaker 3 

Everything was that way. 

00:18:59 Speaker 3 

Bert was a tremendous reader, Bert Read. 

00:19:03 Speaker 3 

You wouldn’t believe what Bert Read and Bert. 

00:19:06 Speaker 3 

Let me many, many books and. 

00:19:09 Speaker 3 

Suggested to me things to read and lent me books. 

00:19:15 Speaker 3 

I was always nervous about reading books that Bert lent me because I was scared to get the pages dirty. 

00:19:22 Speaker 3 

As Burt could read a book and put it back, and you would never know that anybody had read the book, the Spline would never be bent. 

00:19:30 Speaker 3 

He read a book absolutely that way, or that was it. 

00:19:35 Speaker 3 

I read many, many books, said Bird. 

00:19:38 Speaker 2 

Was this the same apartment that I was in on only one occasion? 

00:19:41 Speaker 2 

Up the top of cuteness? 

00:19:43 Speaker 3 

That’s right, that’s the. 

00:19:45 Speaker 2 

One we are Thompson and I spent a very pleasant couple of hours with Bert, 1 evening and listening to music. 

00:19:50 Speaker 3 

That’s that’s right. That’s right. 

00:19:52 Speaker 2 

Which word program that’s right. 

00:19:55 Speaker 3 

He was just a a fantastic as far as I’m concerned, a wonderful man, and it was very sad to see him go down so quickly as I saw brute in Saint Catherine St. 

00:20:07 Speaker 3 

After he had retired from Canada and it, it was really sad. 

00:20:11 Speaker 3 

He he was walking bent over with a cane. 

00:20:17 Speaker 3 

Kind of French. 

00:20:19 Speaker 3 

Tam on his. 

00:20:23 Speaker 3 

Bent shoulders. 

00:20:25 Speaker 3 

Colta round his neck bent over not the bird hall I knew at all. 

00:20:30 Speaker 3 

Not the bird hall. 

00:20:32 Speaker 3 

And he became very, very hard of hearing in the later years, and he had the hearing aid, which he didn’t give a **** about. 

00:20:32 Speaker 2 

That would be saddening. 

00:20:39 Speaker 3 

And the wire hung out and down. 

00:20:42 Speaker 3 

He didn’t. 

00:20:42 Speaker 3 

He just didn’t bother. 

00:20:44 Speaker 2 

I used to be. 

00:20:45 Speaker 2 

He used his words handling of his hearing aid. 

00:20:47 Speaker 2 

He would he would push it out to. 

00:20:49 Speaker 2 

Like a microphone. 

00:20:50 Speaker 2 

That’s right. 

00:20:51 Speaker 2 

That’s right. 

00:20:52 Speaker 3 

He he hated that thing. 

00:20:54 Speaker 3 

He hated it, and he had to admit he couldn’t hear without it, but he hated it. 

00:20:59 Speaker 3 

He would have liked. 

00:21:01 Speaker 3 

To throw on the floor and stamp on. 

00:21:02 Speaker 3 

It he just did. 

00:21:04 Speaker 3 

Not go with that thing. 

00:21:06 Speaker 3 

Oh, it upset him. 

00:21:08 Speaker 3 

It made him nervous. 

00:21:10 Speaker 3 

Really nervous. 

00:21:11 Speaker 2 

Know I never saw them together, but I’ve always been amused that they. 

00:21:18 Speaker 2 

The thought of seeing. 

00:21:20 Speaker 2 

Bird hall. 

00:21:22 Speaker 2 

With such. 

00:21:25 Speaker 2 

Big rugged. 

00:21:29 Speaker 2 

Tycoon looking entrepreneurs like Harold Carson and Guy Herbert. 

00:21:36 Speaker 2 

I was the contrast between them being very amusing sight. 

00:21:41 Speaker 3 

I was to many, many conventions with these men. 

00:21:45 Speaker 3 

And I can remember very, very well, these three men sitting playing hearts. 

00:21:53 Speaker 3 

This was the bird hall. 

00:21:54 Speaker 3 

Loved hearts. 

00:21:56 Speaker 3 

And it was Carson. 

00:21:59 Speaker 3 


00:22:01 Speaker 2 

Yeah, I heard it. I. 

00:22:02 Speaker 2 

Heard it the. 

00:22:03 Speaker 3 

Three of them would be playing. 

00:22:05 Speaker 3 


00:22:07 Speaker 3 

And they weren’t fooling, believe me, they they weren’t fooling with. 

00:22:11 Speaker 3 

They were playing hard. 

00:22:12 Speaker 3 

I thought you particularly Mr. 

00:22:15 Speaker 3 

Who wouldn’t like to have a little shot down on them? 

00:22:18 Speaker 3 

And Brick was no, he wasn’t very far behind either. 

00:22:22 Speaker 2 

It kept up. 

00:22:22 Speaker 3 

So Oh yes, they the three of them. 

00:22:25 Speaker 3 

I tell you, it’s quite a thing to see. 

00:22:30 Speaker 3 

It’s quite a thing. 

00:22:32 Speaker 2 

It’s going to be a very vicious game. 

00:22:34 Speaker 3 

It certainly can. 

00:22:35 Speaker 3 

Oh, yes, very much so. 

00:22:37 Speaker 3 

Oh, yeah. 

00:22:39 Speaker 3 

I you know, we could talk here for days, I suppose. 

00:22:43 Speaker 3 

And as we talk, I would remember things many, many things that happened. 

00:22:48 Speaker 3 

Some funny. 

00:22:49 Speaker 3 


00:22:52 Speaker 3 

I I. 

00:22:53 Speaker 3 

When we were in all Canada, I guess we had one of the nicest board rooms of any Rep house. 

00:23:01 Speaker 3 

And this is Burt Halls. 

00:23:03 Speaker 3 

And I’m sure many of the people remember this boardroom. 

00:23:08 Speaker 3 

It’s hard to describe to you. 

00:23:10 Speaker 3 

The lights were low. 

00:23:11 Speaker 3 

This was before this day and age. 

00:23:15 Speaker 3 

He was. 

00:23:15 Speaker 3 

Burt was always ahead of things. 

00:23:18 Speaker 3 

In a very, very modern. 

00:23:23 Speaker 3 

Board room. 

00:23:24 Speaker 3 

We had a small room off of that where we had a turntable. 

00:23:28 Speaker 3 

Nowadays you would have videotape or quarter inch tape, et cetera. 

00:23:33 Speaker 3 

And those days we used discs. 

00:23:36 Speaker 3 

I remember a thing. 

00:23:36 Speaker 3 

Remember them very well. Albert had this all set up. We had an amplifier that I’m sure weighed 900 pounds. It was all in this closet. 

00:23:46 Speaker 3 

And we would he would have certain people in and we would have to go in there and act as operators and we’d play this and Bert would serve cocktails. 

00:23:56 Speaker 3 

This sort of thing. 

00:23:58 Speaker 3 

And I can remember so many funny things that happened in there and so many nice things that happened in there. 

00:24:07 Speaker 3 

And nowadays we have caterers that come in, you know, with little sandwiches and so on. 

00:24:13 Speaker 3 

In those days, we didn’t have too much of that, and we had to look after it ourselves. 

00:24:17 Speaker 3 

I tell you, this is quite a thing. 

00:24:19 Speaker 3 

We’d be making sandwiches in the. 

00:24:22 Speaker 3 

To feed the people that were in the boardroom, liquor was no problem, of course. 

00:24:28 Speaker 3 

That was in there and I’ll always remember one time after Claire Copeland joined us. 

00:24:35 Speaker 3 

One particular morning, we knew we were going to have a. 

00:24:41 Speaker 3 

Some sort of presentation that Bert had set up. 

00:24:44 Speaker 3 

And Claire came in this morning. 

00:24:46 Speaker 3 

I don’t know where he’d been, but he was all enthused about it. 

00:24:52 Speaker 3 

I am. 

00:24:56 Speaker 3 

I I’m really not sure how this all happened, but I know that that Claire was really enthused and he decided that. 

00:25:05 Speaker 3 

He’d better be right on his toes for. 

00:25:11 Speaker 3 

Because, Bert, this was important to Bert. 

00:25:15 Speaker 3 

Claire goes into the boardroom and takes off both shoes and puts his feet up on the coffee table and takes we had in those days we didn’t have real sharp air conditioning. 

00:25:27 Speaker 3 

Claire takes his shoes off and we had airwick spray airwick. 

00:25:32 Speaker 3 

And Claire has got both feet on the coffee table and. 

00:25:35 Speaker 3 

He takes his shoes. 

00:25:36 Speaker 3 

Off and as Burt walks in, here’s Claire. 

00:25:40 Speaker 3 

With the airwick spraying his shoes inside the shoes inside the shoes, he puts one shoe on. 

00:25:49 Speaker 3 

Burt walks in Claire without even looking up. 

00:25:54 Speaker 3 

Then puts both shoes on and says. 

00:25:56 Speaker 3 

Now let’s go. 

00:25:58 Speaker 3 

We’re ready for the meeting. 

00:25:59 Speaker 3 

This is the first time I ever saw Bert Hall not knowing what to say. 

00:26:05 Speaker 3 

He stood there and he said my God. 

00:26:11 Speaker 3 

All right, let’s go. 

00:26:12 Speaker 3 

That was the end. 


And this is it. 

00:26:15 Speaker 3 

True story. 

00:26:18 Speaker 1 

This interview was recorded in 1978 by **** Meister.