Transcript
00:00:02 Speaker 1
This is an interview with Mr.
00:00:04 Speaker 1
Kenneth Cable, recorded in his home on.
00:00:09 Speaker 1
The 10th of March 1982 in Vancouver. My name is Dennis Duffy.
00:00:17 Speaker 1
Uh, Mr. cafel?
00:00:19 Speaker 1
You were involved with the educational broadcasting in in British Columbia starting when.
00:00:27 Speaker 2
In the 1940’s I was.
00:00:31 Speaker 2
Working with the university as assistant director of extension with Gordon Shrum when the Carnegie Corporation offered the VC Department of Education’s $5000 grant to study the use of broadcasting in rural education.
00:00:52 Speaker 2
The BBC had done quite a bit of educational broadcasting in Britain, but they wanted to find out how effective it would be to help rural schools particularly.
00:01:05 Speaker 2
By supplementing the curriculum that a rural school teacher could have, and so the idea was to find if we could put on half our broadcasts that the teachers in the rural schools could plug in, bringing them material which would not ordinarily be useful, for instance.
00:01:24 Speaker 2
Teaching of music many rural school teachers didn’t have training in music, so we gave 1/2 hour to tracing in music and science and so on.
00:01:35 Speaker 2
I see.
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Had the had this kind of thing been done much previously in in Canada?
00:01:41 Speaker 2
It hadn’t been done in Western Canada at all.
00:01:45 Speaker 2
I think something had been done in Ontario and something in Quebec, but it was beginning to be done quite a little bit in the United States in different parts and This is why I drove around.
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In the.
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40 to study what was being done in the United States for rural education, and I was going to go on over to Britain to study the BBC.
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But the war situation in 1940 was too serious, so I didn’t go. I came back and then I set up school broadcasting.
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It was the Department of Education cooperating with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.
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And we had a committee, a supervisory committee, to help us organize this, and we did five half hours a week.
00:02:37 Speaker 2
Then we cooperated later with the four Western provinces and some of our broadcasts.
00:02:43 Speaker 2
ABC broadcasts went right across to Winnipeg and were used by the Western Schools as well.
00:02:51 Speaker 1
So it was both in the region and then across the.
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What would the content of these programs be?
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Would they be each program devoted to one topic?
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Yes, we published each year twice a year.
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A pamphlet which we set out to all the rural schools so the teachers would know what the topic was going to be at that hour on that day and if she wanted to tune in, there was the outline of the.
00:03:18 Speaker 2
Now they were varied and I haven’t unfortunately got here copies of them.
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But we started.
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The main one was music and then there were talks about Beastie history and science subjects, rural educational problems and so on.
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But it was tried that it.
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They tried to bring it down to the.
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Level of the grades one to 8.
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So it was aimed at the gate.
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Elementary school, yes.
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Was there any programs that were aimed at?
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No, we didn’t get to the secondary school while I was there.
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That was kept as an elementary school because the rural schools, most of them, were out only one grade, Grade 1 to 8.
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And beyond that they went into high school.
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What was the CBC’s attitude?
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Towards his broadcast with a quite cooperative or.
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Well, the the CBC, of course, is a broadcasting show.
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Are their jobs to broadcast, and The thing is to get material to broadcast.
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So they were glad to cooperate with the Department of Education, the Department of Education prepared the.
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Script and paid the cost of the actors and the musicians which were used to put them across the CBC gave their facilities the studios, the technicians and did the broadcasting.
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And these would have been done done Live Today.
00:04:52 Speaker 1
When you say actors and musicians were were any of the programs dramatized?
00:04:57 Speaker 2
Yes, several times we would take a historical scene and have a script write written about it and dramatize it with two or three actors to try and bring home a historical fact.
00:05:12 Speaker 2
And we do quite a little bit of that.
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Do you remember any of the particular ground positions that you might have done?
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I beg your pardon.
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Do you remember any of the particular things?
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You might have.
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I can’t give you that detail, I I haven’t got my files here.
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They must be down somewhere in the CBC building, buried away, but.
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We we used the live actors, they were, we rehearsed for an hour and a half before the show and we used high school boys and girls quite often together with two or three professional actors to carry the lead.
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So that it was a good, lively show.
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What would the school?
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Children do they would play small parts.
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Yes, we’re where necessary small parts.
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Just recently I met a man up in the Okanogan, he said.
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You Remember Me and I said no.
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He said he used to pay me 250 a show when I was a boy actor 40 years ago for you.
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How long do these programs continue?
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Well, they went for many years.
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I mean, I was only active with them for four years and then I left that job.
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But they continued on for for many years, and they’re still going on there at the present time.
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I don’t think five days a week now, but I think 2 or.
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Three days a week.
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That’s what’s called the Canadian schools broadcast.
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Had did you?
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Were you in contact at all with the BBC and talked to them about their their educational work?
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I I didn’t go to Britain or meet them directly.
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I got all their publications and their material and studied there and occasionally a BBC person came across Canada and we’d talk about things there.
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But it was really a Canadian development on its own.
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What are some of the particular problems you might have encountered in in putting together a school program?
00:07:11 Speaker 2
Well the the problem is really to get people who will write vital scripts.
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This was one of the problems we would have to have the scripts come in six weeks or so in advance and then study them, get them rewritten and then cast them and then perhaps recast them so that the script.
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Came alive.
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That it had to, and it had to, I suppose, use only vocabulary that the students would be familiar with.
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Oh yes, and you see, since the teacher had the booklet, the outline of what was coming, she could prepare the class for the show.
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Now these.
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Programs were used.
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All over the province, but very largely in the smaller schools and the rural schools.
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And then.
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One of the problems in the early days of broadcasting was we had the big transmitter, CBR here in Vancouver, and it covered the whole province to a certain extent.
00:08:12 Speaker 2
But in mountain valleys the transmission was poor.
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And so the CBC started and I can’t remember the exact date of this, what they call LPR’s, low power repeater transmitters, and the first one they put in was in the Fraser Canyon.
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One of the small places, the base and it would give it just be connected with the network directly by wire.
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But broadcast a clear transmission for about a three mile circle.
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This covered the village.
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And that first one was in British Columbia and then there are many, many of them all over the province now because in many areas they don’t get excellent reception in the mountain valleys, they get interference.
00:08:57 Speaker 2
So if they have a low power repeater in their own area, they’re assured of first class.
00:09:04 Speaker 1
So these repeaters started to come into use when educational broadcasting.
00:09:08 Speaker 2
At the same time, yes.
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And after the first one or two were put in.
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I think the second one was Revelstoke, I believe.
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Then they spread all over the province, and they’re quite a large number.
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Now, I would have to check with the CBC now.
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The note number that they’re operating now, but they’re very widespread.
00:09:28 Speaker 2
Because CBR at this time had some interference with the station in Mexico down at Tijuana, which was broadcasting on the same wavelength, it it didn’t legally have a right to use that wavelength, but it was and far outpaces tuning very finely. It would get in the Mexican station. So these LP RT’s.
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Covered that problem.
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What kind of a response did you get to the broadcasts?
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Oh, very good.
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The teachers were very keen about them because, you know, if you’re a teacher in a rural school with perhaps 14 or 16 kids and having to teach all eight grades, the business of having resources and material to keep the youngsters interested.
00:10:16 Speaker 2
It was very acceptable and very widely appreciated.
00:10:22 Speaker 1
UM.
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Would it be especially difficult to prepare programs that it’s such a narrow audience you’re aiming at such a a specialized kind of audience?
00:10:35 Speaker 1
Would it take a lot of preparation to research?
00:10:39 Speaker 2
Well, we usually our script writers for the programs were usually teachers who we would work with in Vancouver, who were really on top of the material they had at their fingertips.
00:10:50 Speaker 2
And then we’d get them to put it together.
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And if the script didn’t come to life, it’d be worked over again.
00:10:57 Speaker 2
But the educational content was there because the teachers knew what they wanted to give.
00:11:04 Speaker 1
I see.
00:11:05 Speaker 1
And during all this time you were employed by the Ministry of Education.
00:11:08 Speaker 1
Is that right?
00:11:09 Speaker 2
From 1940 to 44, they paid my salary us.
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How did you get drawn into the C?
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You see.
00:11:17 Speaker 2
Well, the CBC right from the beginning gave me office space in the CBC offices, and I had my secretary there and every hour of the day we were working with CBC people and I got to know everybody very well and the regional director was Doctor Ira Dillworth and.
00:11:36 Speaker 2
He and I got to know each other and.
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He appointed me, he said.
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Why don’t you get into the bigger job of being the regional director of programmes?
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So that’s why I left the Department of Education and went to the CBC.
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And I was regional director of programmes for three years and then Doctor Dillworth was moved to Montreal in charge of overseas broadcasting and the CBC made Me regional director for the whole broadcasting.
00:12:05 Speaker 2
So that’s what those were the steps that I changed.
00:12:08 Speaker 1
Was it unusual?
00:12:10 Speaker 1
So you moved into a management role at CBBC with relatively little experience in broadcasting.
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Was that unusual?
00:12:17 Speaker 2
Well, I wouldn’t say very little experience.
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I had four years in school broadcasting, which is working.
00:12:24 Speaker 2
In the active field of broadcasting, half hour show a day that I was regional program director and I was in charge, responsible for all the programs going over the air with all the actors and musicians and the program planning and so on.
00:12:38 Speaker 2
And we used to have program meetings once or twice a week with.
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The different people concerned.
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To analyze what we were aiming to do, and then after the program went on the air, we would have a meeting and listen to a rebroadcast a playback and see whether we had achieved what we set out to achieve.
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That was the thing that we did regularly, whether it was a newscast or a musical show.
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Turn around.
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Yeah, I attended Dalhousie University.
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Taking a BA in 26 and a masters in 27 and I majored in international law and the history and practice of diplomacy from my Masters.
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Because I was looking forward to a career in external affairs.
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So then I stayed on and took my LLB.
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In 1930 and on graduation, along with about 200 other people, I wrote a civil service exam, a national Civil Service exam.
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For the position of third Under Secretary of State, Department of External Affairs, and I wound up as one of.
00:14:01 Speaker 3
The top 8.
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And we all want to Ottawa.
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Or and all before the Civil Service Commission board, headed by OD Skelton.
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And I wound up in the first four.
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So, but I had an appointment.
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To the Department of External Affairs, as third Under Secretary, and I was to take up my duties in September.
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But just about this time, my former university professor Doctor Henry F Monroe, who was internationally known as a an international scholar.
00:14:35 Speaker 4
Just for the record, I said Monroe with knee on the.
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End now.
00:14:38 Speaker 3
Just anyone?
00:14:38 Speaker 3
Oh, yeah.
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And he became the first Superintendent of education for this province.
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And had a long series of chats with me nowing.
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And my background and what had happened, Chris.
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So he finally was persuasive enough to get me to resign the appointment before I had taken it on and go into the Department of Education and his administrative capacity.
00:15:06 Speaker 3
And having done that, one of the duties I had about three major duties in the department in those days, small staff.
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The school broadcast.
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So this is how I became.
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If you like, on a professional or semi professional basis in broadcasting.
00:15:25 Speaker 4
What was the work you’ve done while you were at university?
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During university I had them in my undergraduate days before I got my MBA and I had been.
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Majoring in English up to that point.
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So that I did a number of talks on radio in the early days.
00:15:45 Speaker 3
OK.
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There was no fee involved.
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I could assure you, but all talks on literature.
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Shakespeare. Yes, Sir. What’s the?
00:15:56 Speaker 4
Which station were you on nation?
00:15:57 Speaker 3
So you’re generous, you know, in the old days. Yeah, it was the only station in the city. You say, until 1945? Yeah.
00:16:06 Speaker 3
And of course, I had known major billboard.
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And the other men associated with him at CHNS, when that station was.
00:16:18 Speaker 3
So that it was just an easy step.
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To the wind and do some sustaining broadcast if you like on a sunny.
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Way I suppose you’re interested in literature rather than you’re interested in reading as a guide.
00:16:31 Speaker 3
In a sense, but I was always interested in radio as well.
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I had done some public speaking and the radio seemed tremendous.
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Outlet for that ticket.
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Our interest in those.
00:16:44 Speaker 4
It’s a good place we would.
00:16:46 Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly.
00:16:47 Speaker 3
I would be ham was right at home.
00:16:49 Speaker 3
Yes, Ken.
00:16:50 Speaker 4
Right.
00:16:51 Speaker 4
So then you you became involved with in your job with the Department of Education, became involved in school broadcast what?
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What were your duties in?
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That connect.
00:16:59 Speaker 3
I was the not only in charge, but the producer of all the prog.
00:17:04 Speaker 3
I had to plan the programs a year in advance.
00:17:09 Speaker 3
Secure the services of people from all walks of life, from University high school professional.
00:17:19 Speaker 3
Specialists and other fields and have them arrange a series of broadcast to schools.
00:17:25 Speaker 4
What sort of broadcast were you doing, what with?
00:17:27 Speaker 3
Content we did language English let we did a course of instruction in French.
00:17:37 Speaker 3
We did history.
00:17:40 Speaker 3
Music with live groups and with solos.
00:17:44 Speaker 3
We did drama every week we did series year by year.
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We changed one year.
00:17:53 Speaker 3
We do a series on archaeology.
00:17:56 Speaker 3
Another year on geology and so on, and giving to the schools some of the things that they would get later in their educational careers.
00:18:03 Speaker 3
But just to give them an interest and a taste.
00:18:06 Speaker 3
The program was built.
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On the principle that we would not do classroom instruction, but that the radio broadcasts would be supplementary to the work of the classroom teacher.
00:18:22 Speaker 3
And in this way we were able to provide programs that were interesting enough to supplement the work of the teacher and to get the teachers support as well as the children’s.
00:18:33 Speaker 4
And you’ve got the time the time was provided for.
00:18:35 Speaker 3
You and the time was provided free CHMS in those days made a tremendous contribution because when the department ran one experimental series in the spring of 20.
00:18:47 Speaker 3
Eight major Bart was most enthusiastic and he welcomed the school.
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Broadcast on the station with open arms and said, look, anything I can do to help, I will.
00:18:58 Speaker 3
So that fall, then we went into a regular series of Friday afternoon school broadcasts.
00:19:05 Speaker 3
They ran for two hours from two to four, and we’d open with a semi classical or classical selection or a band selection.
00:19:14 Speaker 3
Then our first speaker.
00:19:16 Speaker 3
And that they usually ran 12.
00:19:19 Speaker 3
But up to 15 minutes and then some more music and then into the next one and into the next, and so on for.
00:19:25 Speaker 3
Two hours.
00:19:26 Speaker 4
Sort of an early magazine format.
00:19:27 Speaker 3
Yeah, an early magazine format with a wide variety of subjects.
00:19:32 Speaker 4
You were getting free time with the people who appeared on it appearing for.
00:19:36 Speaker 3
Yeah, they did.
00:19:37 Speaker 3
At the end of the year with a very small budget, because now we’re into the early 30s and this is depression era.
00:19:45 Speaker 3
At the end of the year, people who had appeared in a regular series.
00:19:50 Speaker 3
Either as an instructor or in a drama series or in a music series, and so on would get a very modest honorarium at the end of the year, and that was the way it was financed.
00:20:04 Speaker 4
You’re you’re the players that you did with these simply adaptations or with the.
00:20:09 Speaker 4
You know the book where where did?
00:20:10 Speaker 4
The text came from.
00:20:12 Speaker 3
We had a number of people who were giving us historical scripts.
00:20:16 Speaker 3
People like Helen Creighton Nonody have heard of her or not, but she has written a great many stories on the folklore of Nova Scotia and this sort of thing, and they were giving us scripts.
00:20:20 Speaker 4
Very well.
00:20:29 Speaker 4
You emphasize we’re giving.
00:20:31
OK.
00:20:32 Speaker 3
Giving the American networks had.
00:20:36 Speaker 3
Been doing some geography dramas using a family.
00:20:43 Speaker 3
And the family mother and father and two children were visiting different countries of the world or different cities in the World Week by week, so that the scripts were provided.
00:20:54 Speaker 3
We were able, on an exchange basis to get these scripts and then have professional dramatic tell them do it.
00:21:03 Speaker 3
Halifax had a very active and very professional theatre during these years.
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The Theatre acts Guild.
00:21:12 Speaker 3
Of Halifax HL, Piggott was the director.
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And he had Hugh and Jane Mills, JL Roberts and.
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Bill Foster, or there any number of people, Frank.
00:21:27 Speaker 4
Frank Willis was.
00:21:28 Speaker 3
Ohh, Frank and Austin.
00:21:31 Speaker 3
They were both very active in those days, both in radio and in the.
00:21:34 Speaker 3
Theater and all of these people came to us and said, like, if you’re going to do drama for the schools campus in so week after.
00:21:42 Speaker 3
Week Leslie Pickett, Maria Pickett and Gene and Humerals and jail rabbits and these people, Abbey Lane and someone would all come down and they would rehearse their scripts and do 1/2 hour drama.
00:22:00 Speaker 4
Well, what?
00:22:00 Speaker 3
To contribute to the cause.
00:22:02 Speaker 3
Oh, yeah, it was wonderful.
00:22:03 Speaker 4
All live on.
00:22:04 Speaker 3
Here all live on area and you can imagine some of the things that happened during live broadcasts in those days.
00:22:11 Speaker 3
You know, you cut some discs occasionally, but you didn’t have any tapes.
00:22:15 Speaker 3
It wasn’t as easy as it is today.
00:22:18 Speaker 4
You know, as a matter of fact, I don’t.
00:22:19 Speaker 4
I don’t see what I think I told you.
00:22:21 Speaker 4
That’s the atns last name.
00:22:22 Speaker 4
They still.
00:22:22 Speaker 4
Have one of the old transcription turntable, right?
00:22:27 Speaker 4
The how long were you with?
00:22:28 Speaker 3
Me before I was with the department from.
00:22:32 Speaker 3
The fall of 1930.
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To the end of 1945.
00:22:38 Speaker 3
And at that time, I resigned from the department because I had been offered a position as general manager of radio station CH&S for a series of things that led into that.
00:22:51 Speaker 3
But then I went into professional radio as Bill Bart became the director of the station and I became the general manager.
00:23:00 Speaker 3
And then, of course, we were in the commercial radio.
00:23:03 Speaker 4
Where were you by the time you’ve got there or if you remember during the period of 30s with Steve Tennis doing much in the way of news because this was one of the real contention points between the newspapers and this upstart thing called.
00:23:15 Speaker 3
Video. Yes, I know.
00:23:17 Speaker 3
Now, CNS was very fortunate there was an association with the newspaper.
00:23:23 Speaker 3
Through the direct board of directors and the ownership.
00:23:29 Speaker 3
One of the.
00:23:32 Speaker 3
Well, the chief emphasis, if you like, was on news at the station.
00:23:37 Speaker 3
And this was encouraged and the editor in succession, number of the editors of the newspaper would come and give special news analysis and so on on the air.
00:23:53 Speaker 3
And Doctor Rachel stored in Donhauser universe.
00:23:57 Speaker 3
Every Sunday gave 1/2 an hour review of World News sponsored by the newspaper now, and News was an outstanding.
00:24:13 Speaker 3
At the station’s operation in those days and always.
00:24:16 Speaker 4
Has been, but I support local news and the area news would come from the newspaper.
00:24:20 Speaker 3
Yeah, that’s right.
00:24:21 Speaker 3
And from Canadian Press and British United Press, C Jones during those years, I think was the only station in Atlantic Canada that had both CP.
00:24:34 Speaker 3
And be your paid both new services.
00:24:37 Speaker 4
At one time you also I think we’re a member of the Trans Radio.
00:24:41 Speaker 3
Yes, I tried.
00:24:42 Speaker 3
Yeah, sure.
00:24:44 Speaker 4
And that eventually went off to your incident about the wartime.
00:24:46 Speaker 3
Yes it did.
00:24:48 Speaker 4
Time were started, the implication being the gentleman in New York was proven Nazi.
00:24:54 Speaker 3
Or did you have any gas?
00:24:55 Speaker 3
Well, that was a factor in the decision.
00:24:59 Speaker 3
I think most people started to drop decision.
00:25:04 Speaker 3
Yeah, for that another reason.
00:25:06 Speaker 3
Right.
00:25:06 Speaker 4
Would be somewhat I don’t support so badly down here, but out West they found it somewhat unreliable.
00:25:11 Speaker 4
If there were an atmospheric.
00:25:13 Speaker 3
Yes, exactly.
00:25:14 Speaker 3
And the same with the feed didn’t here too.
00:25:16 Speaker 3
There were many days, particularly in in bad weather in the winter.
00:25:21 Speaker 3
When the service wasn’t getting through.
00:25:24 Speaker 4
Yeah, money.
00:25:25 Speaker 4
And it’s really, I should turn the table, but I can’t be bothered.
00:25:28 Speaker 4
As Sam Walsh from Vancouver said.
00:25:30 Speaker 3
He I do, Sam.
00:25:31 Speaker 3
Very well, incidentally, yes.
00:25:32 Speaker 3
Go ahead.
00:25:32 Speaker 4
He died for.
00:25:34 Speaker 4
Yes, he did.
00:25:35 Speaker 4
But he was telling me they were some station that was trying to sell Press news to them, of course.
00:25:40 Speaker 4
And he said, what do you do when the weather is bad?
00:25:44 Speaker 4
And he said that Jeff looked at me and he said, you know, he says, you know, that he moved army in China.
00:25:49 Speaker 4
And he says they’re fighting along the Yellow River.
00:25:51 Speaker 4
He says, well, we got them on this side today and we take them across the left side tomorrow.
00:25:55 Speaker 4
And if the.
00:25:55 Speaker 4
Thing’s still up. We bring them back again.
00:26:00 Speaker 3
That’s updating a story.
Part 2
*Music*