Transcript
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Kurt collection.
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Of The Pioneers of Selkirk communications.
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The following interview with Jack Cavanaugh was recorded on January 28, 1978 by **** Meisner.
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28th.
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And an interview with Jack Kavanaugh.
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Jack, good morning. I can’t.
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Tell you how delighted I am to have you among many and many people that I’ve had an opportunity.
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To talk with.
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In the last few months.
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If for no other reason, and there are lots of reasons, but if for no other reason that you were practically.
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The first or one of the very first members of the organization.
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I guess Harold Carson started.
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And then became Taylor Pearson and Carson, and then an organization called All Canada Radio was became part of it.
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And today, of course, the whole thing.
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What year roughly do you recall having started with?
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Harold Carson or I guess yes, I guess with Carson.
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Well, with all Canada actually. And I remember February 1936.
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Over 36. But you were with Harrison before that.
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Prior to that.
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I worked for.
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Off and on that.
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Scenography I took a course after the depression.
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Oh yeah.
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And then I got asked Carson if there was a chance.
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I met him Monday in the hall.
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And that’s your chance.
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Getting the job with you.
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And he said, oh, sure, we’re going to start transcriptions.
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So he started to bring them in from CP McGregor, I guess.
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It was, yes, yes.
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And Evans, Ed.
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House, McGregor and gardening.
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Burbank way.
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Nobody’s here today and.
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So I started there at $40 a month, which was big money then, and I had more money to spend I think, than I did.
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You better believe it.
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Oh, on.
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Well, now I get lots of money.
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To spend it doesn’t bother.
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Me, but before it was done?
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And I started.
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The first discs that ever came in and we had to clear.
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Them through the customs.
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And then all the fellow that started before me of course, would be Elf Gibson.
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That was so respected throughout the organization, you know.
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Yes, of course I remember. I remember’s name very well. I don’t think I.
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Ever met him?
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Though oh, he was Prince for gay.
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And so he was the office manager and accountant and everything you see in Calvin.
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This was in Calgary, not Lethbridge.
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Oh, no.
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Everything was accounted when Kirsten set up the all candid so.
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Affiliated with the name in Winnipeg before it all canned it.
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Was the United broadcast sales?
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Even before UBS.
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Ohh really?
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And it’s something like all Canada.
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But these.
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Richardsons in Winnipeg had.
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The the company.
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Ohh yes, yes, yes, of course, yes.
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So Jack, really when you think back on it from 1936?
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To the time of your retirement.
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Which was I think you said about four years ago, puts it at about 1974.
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74 That’s about doing that retirement, yeah.
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That’s a pretty fair span of time, isn’t it?
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That’s a long.
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Time you weren’t exactly jumping from job to job.
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You kind of stayed put with the one company.
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I sort of.
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Stuck with it, which is a good thing.
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Now I don’t have to worry, fair pension and.
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Few things that I don’t have to worry about.
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Money most demanding thing on your life these days, I gather, is whether or not it’s going to.
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Be good for skiing tomorrow.
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Well, that’s all I worry about is.
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The weather now, which is not too bad.
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Jack, who were among the first people.
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In the organization at the time that that you joined Carl Carson, you spoke person Gainer as one of them.
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First was in Calgary and I think he came from Lethbridge manager there and I think he managed to see if they see for a few months and then I’m not sure if it was.
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Oh yeah.
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1st and then tiny elfiq.
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Then followed by Gordon Henry.
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His managers.
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So anyhow, purse.
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He worked in Calgary for a while and he go out on these Rd.
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trips with Carson, which was a big thing in those days selling shows.
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Of course.
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And they’d wire back.
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And he was such an excitable guy.
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Yes, I know.
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You know, he was jumping all.
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Over him, he was funny.
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And I’d have packed the discs up and shipped them out and things like that and.
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Then he was transferred.
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To open the Toronto office and they started representation then too.
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And the sale programs.
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And so just before he left, they hired a fella by the name of Fred.
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I saw Fred in Victoria last week.
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Is he still?
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Oh, that’s good.
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Yes, very much so.
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Wish I’d known.
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Spend a delightful evening with with Fred and Myrtle, his wife.
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No, that yeah and we chatted and.
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Got some good ones.
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So he was the the one that was handled, hired in Calgary and he was my boss because I was a little too young.
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I didn’t have.
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Any experience?
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And he was a school teacher, you know.
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Hell of a guy to work for.
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I was glad when.
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They sent him EI liked.
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I liked him, but he had this school.
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My room complexion is, yes.
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And I was too, for beans in those days.
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So it was always as in the many motorcycling days.
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Ah, see, when I had there.
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So after Fred was finally sent E, then they hired the chap that everybody knows.
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Well, as Eric Williams.
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Yes, I see Eric fairly often in Toronto, yes.
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He still works for.
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The company, doesn’t he?
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He retired from the company.
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But for.
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And he’s working on a sort of part time basis with Doc Murray, you remember.
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Doc with that film company.
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What was it then?
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The other offshoot of all Canada.
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No equality.
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No, no, no.
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The Robert Lawrence Lawrence.
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He used to do a bit of work for them.
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Yes, yes, that’s true, we did.
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So Eric and I would funny.
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They used to call us the old Cam, the twins, because we’re exactly the same age.
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Yeah, the same birthdays and everything.
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Ohh, yeah.
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So we didn’t find out for a year.
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Or two later.
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Isn’t that a funny coincidence?
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And he was a.
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Good fella. Oh yeah.
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And then.
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Those were the main ones that were hired in all Canada through Calgary and that worked with Carson.
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Well then spanning those years, the.
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What was your broad function say in the 10 years before you retired?
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Well, first of all, I started out shipping and then when Fred Cann went, EI took over the handling of.
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Sails in the Western Canada for the radio programs and in those days we didn’t do any station time at all.
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And then it developed in East and I didn’t bother with giving me much so.
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I just started out on my own really.
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And I didn’t have proper forms and I got the idea of booking times, you know, and I’d squeeze in at the agencies and worked in there eventually.
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But it was done all in my own in the West, except in Winnipeg.
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Then eventually get per Skinner, you see, was transferred back to Winnipeg.
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And then the guy.
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Herbert, I saw the first time I met Guy Herbert was when he was.
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Handling, I guess the commercial aspects of CKY and Manitoba telephone station at that time.
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Oh, that’s right, deal.
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And that would be about 193736 or 37.
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So does the programming.
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Then it broke into the working up the station time.
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And it didn’t develop really till after the war.
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Then I got enough that it was really starting to pay.
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And then again, the programs always mix real sales.
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I handled all of it.
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The library for Western Canada, yes.
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And actually, we’re pretty did selling in Winnipeg not to any great extent, I’d do that.
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I’d rate mainly all the letters, sales letters and everything and sell them all from Calgary.
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Really, even in Vancouver too.
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And I used to make trips around the country.
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Pretty wild ones at times.
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Yes, yes, I know.
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We did do the business first and then we just kept loose, you know, and.
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Stay up all night.
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So you were the All Canada office West of Toronto really because?
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Vancouver has only in relatively recent years expanded into being in office.
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Yeah, it was Baldwin, yes.
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But he was a great golfer, you know.
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And he didn’t do too much business.
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He did a fair bit.
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But the golfing that helped the.
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Business awkward?
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Well, one rationalizes that he did.
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And then, of course, when TV came.
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I took over the sailor films in Western Canada.
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You know, we started out with the.
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Zev and a few things like that.
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And we’d sell them even before TV was on the.
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Air, yeah.
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I’d go up to Edmonton, for instance, and.
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It’s pretty novel in those days and I.
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Invite the clients you know, find out who the clients might be.
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Light them up to the room for breakfast in the morning, bring their wives and show the film at the same time you see it flattered the wives.
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Yes, yes.
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And then there’s the husband he’d have.
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To buy.
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So Philmon was good in those days.
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You were involved then?
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Throughout at least the latter half of your long stint.
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With both program and time sales.
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Until your retirement and I guess.
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When you retired, Bob Johnson came out from Toronto.
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Yeah, he came out for a year and I just introduced him to all the accounts and so on that I build up in the agencies and and then.
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He took over from there.
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The last.
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For years.
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That I was in.
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Working, say from 72 to 74 or 71.
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The TV programs fell off because they all canned.
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Pretty well.
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Got out of it, yes.
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So then we just concentrate mainly on station time.
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Yeah, we didn’t sell any programs at all.
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Of course.
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Radio dropped off 10 years before prior to that.
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I used to go around.
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And sell everything I did.
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Jack among the people with whom you worked and were associated here in Calgary.
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Back again in the those early days that we’ve been speaking about.
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Was, I believe Jack Dennis, the late Jack Dennis.
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Yeah, he was a very good friend of mine and.
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He didn’t get an awful lot of education because he came around the studios all the time.
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He was interested in announcing yes, and he worked into that part time and then eventually full time.
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And oh, he was well, one of the tops and then another guy that was the same class and Bob Freeland.
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Yes, I of wild character.
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Don’t care.
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Indeed, the stories about Freeland are legion.
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But he was.
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The top guy, but the money went to his.
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Head in the drink talking about him yesterday.
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Bob Freeland and Leo trainer.
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Leo Trainer was another one that was on AA for years.
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He’d go through the Texaco newscast.
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Never ever read the notes or anything.
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He was so well read and just never make a mistake.
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I know he was incredible.
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I he he worked for me in Vancouver at one point in time.
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I got to know him quite well.
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And I’ve I’ve never seen a man quite like trainer.
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In that he could be.
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Five days into a binge, I feel like that’s right and incoherent until you propped them up behind a microphone, turned the mic on, and all of a sudden he was on stage and it came across fine, so that he finished, he was stoned again.
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It just looks like a plan.
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Other fellow we’re cfac.
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My sister was secretary then to Guy Herbert and also to tiny.
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And it was.
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Eric McLeod, he was a sales manager there once.
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So as a result I had a big home where my parents left.
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And this would be in about 19.
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35 or 36 when they had this cross, Canada.
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Greetings from the queen and everybody came in in different cities across Camden.
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Yes, a whole bunch of guy, Herbert and Chestnuts and Carson and everybody were up at my house.
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And that originated was the Christmas breakfast.
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There was Bob Freeland because I remember there was a big fight that night with Freeland in the cloud.
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He got his.
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Open and I have on tape the.
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A classic Christmas story of the train up, but.
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You know.
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Where they.
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The the regular scheduled transatlantic train.
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Wasn’t able to get through because of snow.
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And they backed a yard engine and a couple of freight cars past the mics to simulate the.
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A transatlantic train you don’t remember.
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That story. No, I’m not.
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Too sure.
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That tiny was involved in it, and Norm Botro was there, and Bob Freeland was there.
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At field.
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Yeah. The divisional point, yeah.
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That’s right.
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Another one I had to.
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See just after coming back from the war.
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And I was able to get quite a lot of liquor and then all the managers they sent in their liquor to Calgary and I bought a brand new Ford, you know.
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That I was able to work after getting out of the Air Force.
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So just about tilted Cochrane or someplace that blew a tire.
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And this was pretty well known, but they had all the liquor for the convention at the bank.
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And here the Mounties came and even help me.
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This is a real, actual story.
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The Mounties helped me take the liquor out of the car and help me fix the tagging of the bag.
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And it was illegal to have all.
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That liquor beautiful.
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But I don’t know everybody in.
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The radio will remember that because it was shortly after.
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The war when?
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Bottles we such a.
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Domain. Yes, yes.
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Persons liquor man, of course.
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That that, that’s kind of fun.
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So you worked really throughout your?
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Time with the company.
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Entirely out of the Calgary office.
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Strictly in the Calgary, yeah.
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Whereas a lot of the managers you know kept being mirrored around all over Hells, half Baker from Hamilton to Victoria, yeah.
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And then I’d be in the office, you see, and that’s why we had a big boardroom there for quite a long time.
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When the person that have the managers meetings.
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And you see the man you just said.
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Come and talk to.
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Me, because they just be waiting their turn, like going in to see a.
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King or something?
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Yes, exactly.
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Going for their raises and all this stuff and.
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So I got to know every manager real well, you know, because not only that, but they might take a lot and.
00:16:28 Speaker 3
Another thing you can ask Steve Mackay at the time.
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I took him hunting.
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And he’d never done any hunting in his life.
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So we started out and it was going to be a good shoot, but.
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Then everything froze up that night.
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So I knew the country real well.
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So I could load Strathmore and it was frozen there and I said oh.
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Well, I’ll go down to.
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The Vulcan nation, and so on.
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You know, we came back and.
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Said oh, maybe.
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10 or 15 ducks and some pheasants, Partridge and he got his first duck and he was in the Bush and I showed him how to hold it and boom.
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He came down.
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He didn’t.
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Happened but and also I used to send.
00:17:06 Speaker 3
Oh, I sent him about 50 or 60 ducks one time for a duck dinner.
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I’d send them down East because.
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These would be all plucked.
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You see, they I used to shoot for Carson and supply him ducks.
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Eat fly me shells.
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He was great guy.
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And Hugh Pearson.
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It was a good hunter, so he wouldn’t mind if I’d take a few days off, either go hunting couple times I’d gone out.
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You know him?
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He’s quick to stop turning now because he’s.
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Hit the peak again.
00:17:41 Speaker 2
Jack, I’ve been.
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Doing a little investigative work around Calgary and.
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I hear that that you’re enjoying retirement like every man.
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Or a woman should.
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Doing exactly what you want to do when you want to do it and having a ball.
00:18:03 Speaker 3
Right.
00:18:04 Speaker 2
Skiing summer and winter water skiing, snow skiing.
00:18:08 Speaker 3
Golf, tennis. I.
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Took that up to this year.
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And I can beat the average fella, at least.
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Yeah, I go for two hours.
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So what do I do in the morning?
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Go for two mile round the lake.
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Down the beach and then eighteen holes at least.
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And then a couple of hours of.
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And then I’ll water ski all afternoon.
00:18:30 Speaker 3
I’ll ski. Oh.
00:18:33 Speaker 3
35 miles is nothing. You know, I just. I just on ski. I wouldn’t couldn’t use two skis anymore. Just the one ski and the little bit of jumping.
00:18:44 Speaker 3
A lot of I like heavy water, which doesn’t.
00:18:49 Speaker 2
And you ski, I gather, just about every day, all winter.
00:18:53 Speaker 2
Unless there happens to be a except the Blizzard of all time.
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Except weekends, when it’s when it’s crowded.
00:18:56 Speaker 3
Yeah, and then.
00:18:59 Speaker 3
See, I was in Europe last year and I took every place in Europe.
00:19:02 Speaker 3
There is Austria.
00:19:02 Speaker 2
Did you hear Italy?
00:19:06 Speaker 3
From Austria to Italy and then back to Austria and then into Switzerland, Germany, which is the greatest place?
00:19:12 Speaker 2
In the world. Beautiful.
00:19:13 Speaker 3
Skate over there.
00:19:16 Speaker 3
Different Alps from Switzerland down into Italy.
00:19:21 Speaker 3
Stayed in Italy for a week 10 days, and then they’d go up and ski down over Mount Lonk, which you have to have a guide because there’s glasses thousands of feet deep.
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Storms takes about four hours to drive.
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Came back and helicopter skied for two weeks.
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It’s almost immoral.
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One man should be having as much fun as you should be.
00:19:45 Speaker 2
But that’s just delightful.
00:19:46 Speaker 2
You paid your dues.
00:19:52 Speaker 3
But the best.
00:19:53 Speaker 3
The greatest you know is this helicopter skiing.
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It’s it’s tough.
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The average guy can’t do it.
00:20:00 Speaker 3
You have to be able to ski.
00:20:01 Speaker 3
Powder tests so your legs have got to be in good shape and you have to.
00:20:06 Speaker 3
You can’t be scared of.
00:20:07 Speaker 3
It or anything you know?
00:20:08 Speaker 3
You just gotta pretend you’re boss.
00:20:10 Speaker 3
Yeah. Lose the odd ski.
00:20:14 Speaker 2
Morning. Do you do?
00:20:14 Speaker 3
This in the bugaboos.
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Bucket booze.
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I’m a stranger.
00:20:20 Speaker 3
Oh well, it’s way up in more than BC and.
00:20:21 Speaker 2
To see country.
00:20:24 Speaker 3
It’s called the bugaboos.
00:20:25 Speaker 2
Oh yeah.
00:20:27 Speaker 3
And you can go in there.
00:20:30 Speaker 3
There’s a bugaboo lodge that’s the best place for helicopter ski, and then you can ski all day. They’ll guarantee a minimum of 100,000.
00:20:39 Speaker 3
So it skied.
00:20:42 Speaker 3
Well, the first week was about 135,000 because there was two bad days. The next week I was.
00:20:49 Speaker 3
Round the 200,000 metric that’s vertical.
00:20:52 Speaker 2
You say 200,000. That’s 200,000 feet of.
00:20:55 Speaker 3
Vertical St. ends. Yeah. So you see, if it’s 200,000 there.
00:20:56 Speaker 2
Of downhill run.
00:21:02 Speaker 3
You couldn’t classify that in actual running running.
00:21:07 Speaker 3
It maybe be.
00:21:08 Speaker 3
5 or 600,000 but this is vertical drops straight down.
00:21:15 Speaker 2
Have you ever become involved in competitive skiing, or do you do it just?
00:21:20 Speaker 3
This this for me.
00:21:20 Speaker 2
The Jack Kavanaugh.
00:21:22 Speaker 3
And then Noel going to what they call these races, you know, molesters and so on.
00:21:27 Speaker 2
Yes, yes.
00:21:28 Speaker 3
But I don’t know the young guys, they’re.
00:21:31 Speaker 3
Too hot to compete against?
00:21:34 Speaker 3
I disturbed him.
00:21:35 Speaker 3
30 years ago I’d been in there.
00:21:39 Speaker 3
Not not very many past.
00:21:42 Speaker 2
Do you have any?
00:21:44 Speaker 2
Any feeling of?
00:21:47 Speaker 2
Loss or regret or?
00:21:51 Speaker 2
Anything lacking in your lifestyle today.
00:21:56 Speaker 2
As a result of no longer being directly involved in business.
00:22:02 Speaker 3
Feel better?
00:22:03 Speaker 3
In fact, I haven’t any spare time.
00:22:05 Speaker 3
I thought when I’d retire, I’d be able to do some work in the basement.
00:22:09 Speaker 3
I got all the tools you could think of, woodworking tools and.
00:22:13 Speaker 3
I never ever get down there life and time.
00:22:16 Speaker 3
Whereas when I was working, I do.
00:22:17 Speaker 2
This often, well, the spare time today is the is yours to make available whenever you want to.
00:22:26 Speaker 2
So obviously you’d rather ski than working in the workshop.
00:22:29 Speaker 3
Oh yes, you know, probably like it too old then I’ll.
00:22:34 Speaker 2
Working basement.
00:22:35 Speaker 2
You mean another 20 or 30 years?
00:22:39 Speaker 3
I break leg bad.
00:22:43 Speaker 3
Well, but really seeing an awful lot of people.
00:22:46 Speaker 3
Too on the.
00:22:46 Speaker 3
Ski slopes, which is so interesting.
00:22:48 Speaker 3
Yes, of course.
00:22:50 Speaker 3
And I, you know, I always I never go up alone very often on a a lift.
00:22:55 Speaker 3
I always wait to get someone even if it isn’t crowded.
00:22:58 Speaker 3
And then you should have to breeze.
00:23:01 Speaker 3
Because you can always find something to talk about where it’s.
00:23:05 Speaker 3
Before I.
00:23:06 Speaker 3
Did like skiing?
00:23:07 Speaker 3
Well, you wouldn’t know what the heck to say.
00:23:09 Speaker 3
Well now, heck.
00:23:11 Speaker 3
The lifts are too short.
00:23:14 Speaker 2
I think perhaps Bob Johnson who?
00:23:20 Speaker 2
Tried to fill some of your footsteps and they Calgary office of All Canada.
00:23:29 Speaker 2
Bob was telling me that that you maintained that.
00:23:32 Speaker 2
A trailer right up in ski country so that you don’t even have to waste time getting there.
00:23:40 Speaker 3
See, I just came back from San Diego.
00:23:43 Speaker 3
Well, I came in 15th of January.
00:23:47 Speaker 3
So I went down there in the middle of November.
00:23:49 Speaker 3
Took my water.
00:23:50 Speaker 3
See, I just use one ski.
00:23:52 Speaker 3
Tennis racket, golf clubs and my snow skis.
00:23:57 Speaker 3
I was getting pretty hot in golf.
00:23:58 Speaker 3
I was playing a lot of the courses around.
00:24:00 Speaker 3
Perry, you know, yes.
00:24:02 Speaker 3
And then on the way back, I ski at Salt Lake City.
00:24:07 Speaker 3
And Snowbird, no numerous places.
00:24:09 Speaker 3
And then I went into Idaho and Sun Valley.
00:24:12 Speaker 3
Jackson Hole and I just had only been back.
00:24:16 Speaker 3
10 days and I gained at the mountain St.
00:24:19 Speaker 3
Of six of them.
00:24:21 Speaker 3
Paid my bills and started.
00:24:23 Speaker 2
Out I get a very clear impression that that you had a lot of fun during the time you’re when broadcasting, which you’re having a lot more fun now.
00:24:31 Speaker 3
Yeah, well, a different kind of fun.
00:24:32 Speaker 3
You know, this is physical exercise.
00:24:36 Speaker 2
You’re sure it is?
00:24:37 Speaker 2
That’s not why you do it.
00:24:38 Speaker 2
But you you do it because you’re enjoying it so much.
00:24:41 Speaker 3
And I like to keep back.
00:24:44 Speaker 3
But this van hits, it’s all insulated.
00:24:47 Speaker 3
You see underneath foam.
00:24:49 Speaker 3
And all through the walls and the mahogany wood on the side.
00:24:53 Speaker 3
It’s got air conditioning. I never use that much and then furnace with the thermostat. I can stay out 25 below.
00:25:03 Speaker 3
Stoves to burning.
00:25:06 Speaker 3
Toilets and covered with sleep for.
00:25:09 Speaker 3
If I want and.
00:25:12 Speaker 3
It’s only it’s one you’ve seen these at the big high top.
00:25:16 Speaker 2
Yes, yes.
00:25:16 Speaker 3
You know it’s probably maximum.
00:25:19 Speaker 3
Oh, I take them.
00:25:20 Speaker 3
The different fellas they taking John McCall, you know, see if they see out for you.
00:25:26 Speaker 3
Two or three times overnight, you know.
00:25:29 Speaker 3
Give him a bad run.
00:25:30 Speaker 3
I like to see him work hard.
00:25:35 Speaker 2
Well, Jack, if my complexion seems to be changing color somewhat, I’m sure it is because I’m green with envy it.
00:25:43 Speaker 2
At the lifestyle that you.
00:25:46 Speaker 2
Hacked out for yourself?
00:25:48 Speaker 2
I don’t think really there’s anything new about your enjoyment of life.
00:25:53 Speaker 2
It’s effects you always have.
00:25:55 Speaker 2
You’re just doing it in a different way than you did before you retired.
00:26:00 Speaker 2
Jack, thank you so much for coming in this morning.
00:26:02 Speaker 2
It’s been delightful to.
00:26:04 Speaker 2
To chat with you.
00:26:06 Speaker 2
And as I say, I return to eastern Canada full of envy for the lifestyle of Jack Cavanaugh.
00:26:12 Speaker 3
OK.
00:26:12 Speaker 2
Well, thanks very much, ****.
00:26:13 Speaker 2
It was a pleasure.
00:26:16 Speaker 1
This interview was recorded in 1978 by **** Meister.