Transcript
00:00:03 Speaker 1
Things happening and we’re just.
00:00:03 Speaker 2
Right, right to you.
00:00:05 Speaker 2
And when it happened, why and where you were and.
00:00:08 Speaker 2
All the things that happened when did you start in?
00:00:10 Speaker 1
Broadcasting well, I started in March of 1949 and that was as a regular thing. My first job that you might be paying job.
00:00:25 Speaker 1
Prior to that, I was in Winnipeg.
00:00:27 Speaker 1
Of course, that’s I was my hometown.
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I did a little.
00:00:33 Speaker 1
With some teen groups at that time, about 48 latter part of 47 and through 48.
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At CK ckoc.
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And then in 49, I sort of decided that this was the way I.
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Was going to go.
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And I had some friends at the.
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Head of the leagues.
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In Fort William, who were in the radio business there and.
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Got a job at CDPR?
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And Port William and I started there in March 49.
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And then were you on on?
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Air or was this a silly acid?
00:01:09 Speaker 1
Was primarily.
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On air to start with.
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Of course, I did all kinds of things, programming and news and and DJ work and sitting on the network.
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And it wasn’t until I came out to Alberta that I took a little bit.
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Greater interest in the writing aspect, although.
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When I came out to Alberta to CFCN in Calgary in 1952.
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I was on the air here as a staff announcer.
00:01:50 Speaker 2
How did you get interested in broadcasting?
00:01:52 Speaker 1
Well, I think it was primarily because of some of my friends in Winnipeg who.
00:01:58 Speaker 1
Had been.
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Involved in theater and to some extent in broadcasting, and it was this teen thing that.
00:02:09 Speaker 1
Really made the difference between whether I was going to be a banker or whether it was going to be a broadcaster.
00:02:15 Speaker 1
Now I’m not too sure that the decision was probably the best one, but it was the one I was stuck with and I’ve been stuck with it for 28 years, so I really have no objections about the whole thing.
00:02:29 Speaker 1
I don’t think that.
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I could have done anything else that I enjoyed more.
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I can’t say that I have ever.
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Waking up in the morning and.
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It felt like, oh heck, I hate to go to work because I was in broadcasting and I that never crossed my mind.
00:02:53 Speaker 2
But he had no background, particularly in broadcasting.
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He went in to learned on the.
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Job did you?
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Sorry, yes.
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Didn’t take any courses in the broadcasting field.
00:03:04 Speaker 1
Of course at that time.
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There, there weren’t too many courses around and.
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It was.
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Catches catch can sort of thing and.
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Keeping your ear to the ground and listening to various announcers on CBC, which was the big thing in those days and some of the major stations in Winnipeg, CK RC being.
00:03:32 Speaker 1
Perhaps the leader in the commercial stations in Winnipeg that in the late 40s.
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Rubbing shoulders with various people and.
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Kind of getting the bug.
00:03:46 Speaker 2
The way you went on and you were you say you did just about everything.
00:03:49 Speaker 2
What kind of a news operation they have in Lakehead?
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When you went there?
00:03:55 Speaker 1
Oh, much like the same as just about any other small station.
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In Canada, it was they.
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They had one teletype and.
00:04:04 Speaker 1
You we had five minute summaries and 15 minute summaries and you went in there and ripped the news off the the Teletype and scurried into the control room.
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If you were the only one around and hopefully put it all together in some chronological order and.
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Did a newscast.
00:04:23 Speaker 2
Of course, you came after the days when all you had was two while you were allowed was two news bulletins a day from the Canadian.
00:04:30 Speaker 1
Press while yes there they were limited in their scope at.
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Fort William we did have.
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A man who was on the City beat there and he used to.
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Give us some local stuff from time to time.
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However, news in those days was.
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Insofar as the commercial state and stations was concerned.
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Less to be desired than that which we got from the CBC.
00:05:03 Speaker 1
Of course they were.
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They had so a greater.
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Scope and areas where they could pick up news all over the place.
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So we had more money and.
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More and more money and more people you.
00:05:17 Speaker 2
Know and you came going back to Winnipeg than?
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52 you.
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Said well in 52 I.
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And the latter part of 52 I.
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Figured I’d.
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Learn everything I could learn and in Fort William, which was probably wrong.
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But at any rate, I made an application to CFCN in Calgary.
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And was accepted and.
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Packed up my belongings.
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And headed for back home to Winnipeg for a day or two.
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And then?
00:05:48 Speaker 1
Straight across to Calgary and I arrived here. I think it was started here in December the 2nd, 1952.
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As the what we affectionately refer to as the as the House that love built.
00:06:04 Speaker 1
Jordan love was.
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The president, general, manager and one of the.
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Greatest guys that I’ve ever come across and broadcast was yes, Boy.
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We would, we would want the real pioneer broadcast.
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Yes, right.
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You would PSCN.
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And there was no.
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Doubt about that?
00:06:20 Speaker 2
What were the salaries in those days?
00:06:23 Speaker 1
Well, I think I went to the head of the lakes for a.
00:06:25 Speaker 1
130.
00:06:25 Speaker 2
$5 a month, if I’m not mistaken, the hidden improved much over the 30s and the 20s with it.
00:06:30 Speaker 1
Well, no, no, that’s true.
00:06:34 Speaker 1
Henry Viney, whom you probably know.
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Can tell you some stories about the salaries and all the things you had to do to make a living in those earlier days of radio.
00:06:47 Speaker 1
However, things improved a little bit as we came West and.
00:06:54 Speaker 1
I think that generally speaking today, radio people and with anything on the ball at all or.
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Or is well paid.
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Is just about anybody in the industry.
00:07:04 Speaker 2
And when you came to Calgary, were you still a Jack of all trades?
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Did you have a specific assignment?
00:07:09 Speaker 1
I was doing a board shift when I came to Calgary.
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To CFCN and at that time.
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One of the.
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The chief announcer?
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I guess you’d call him at that time.
00:07:24 Speaker 1
Don Thomas, was he and I became quite good friends and Don Thomas was doing a program.
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On CFCN, which was called the old Timers program and this particular program was and still is.
00:07:41 Speaker 1
The longest continuously broadcast program in North America.
00:07:48 Speaker 1
It started shortly after CCN went on the air in the about 1922.
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And has been going ever since.
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And it wasn’t too long after I came to CFCN about three years, I guess.
00:08:05 Speaker 1
Don Thomas became program director.
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And consequently had a lot of other duties to perform, and having an interest in this particular program, I took it over as as master of ceremonies.
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It was a folk.
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Quote you know all time music.
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Something like the Don Messer type of thing.
00:08:28 Speaker 1
And I took the program over and did it for 12 or 13 years handwriting.
00:08:35 Speaker 2
Was this the?
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Were you still doing it live?
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Where was it?
00:08:39 Speaker 1
Yes, it was done live up to.
00:08:42 Speaker 1
Not too many years ago, and then it used to be on a Friday night.
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From 9 till midnight.
00:08:51 Speaker 1
And only recently, within the last seven or eight years.
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It was moved to Saturday night and now it’s on on Sunday night.
00:09:01 Speaker 1
And it has, it is now recorded and has been reduced to a.
00:09:05 Speaker 1
Two hour program.
00:09:07 Speaker 2
Will be on the air.
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Live leaves the little room from the odd mistake either young.
00:09:12 Speaker 2
Did you ever get caught with your balls?
00:09:14 Speaker 1
Oh, yes.
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Many, many times.
00:09:17 Speaker 1
With a program like that, it was very relaxed and.
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We had a lot of fun.
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And then, even though we made the odd error here and there.
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Nobody seemed to mind.
00:09:34 Speaker 2
Was a descripted show or was it pretty much ad loop?
00:09:38 Speaker 1
It was all ad Lib as far as the announcing was concerned and with the exception of the commercials, which?
00:09:45 Speaker 1
We’re all alive at that time.
00:09:48 Speaker 1
Very few commercials on recording.
00:09:54 Speaker 1
The orchestra, of course, was live, and there was banter back and forth between the announcer and the orchestra, and generally a good time was had at all.
00:10:04 Speaker 2
Well, what kind of you started in the lake hit again and.
00:10:08 Speaker 2
What sort of equipment did they have?
00:10:09 Speaker 2
Was it?
00:10:11 Speaker 2
By today’s standards, relatively unsophisticated.
00:10:14 Speaker 1
By today’s standards, it was.
00:10:17 Speaker 1
Yes, relatively unsophisticated.
00:10:21 Speaker 1
Today we’ve got these great huge slider boards and so on, but.
00:10:28 Speaker 1
Many great many changes really haven’t been made in the basic board and turntable setup.
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Other than the solid-state.
00:10:38 Speaker 1
We had tube equipment in those days and.
00:10:42 Speaker 1
Today we’ve got Gates and.
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GE and all the rest of them.
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But now they’re solid.
00:10:50 Speaker 2
Of course you have the carts and you take facilities.
00:10:50 Speaker 1
Right.
00:10:52 Speaker 1
Yeah, they’re perfect.
00:10:54 Speaker 1
We had a very interesting.
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When I was at the head of.
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The lakes, the.
00:11:00 Speaker 1
First tape.
00:11:02 Speaker 1
Machines came out for recording on magnetic tape.
00:11:08 Speaker 1
Somehow or other, these fitted onto the turntable and went through a gizmo and and reproduced the the tape.
00:11:15 Speaker 1
They weren’t very satisfactory.
00:11:18 Speaker 1
Any commercials we wanted to record for posterity or keep for a long time, we’re done on the old 16 inch transcription.
00:11:27 Speaker 2
You know, they they give you better fidelity.
00:11:28 Speaker 2
And nearly too early takes absolute.
00:11:30 Speaker 1
Well, abs.
00:11:32 Speaker 1
There was always something going wrong with these.
00:11:34 Speaker 1
These other initial efforts in the in.
00:11:38 Speaker 1
The tape area.
00:11:39 Speaker 2
Still happens this way.
00:11:40 Speaker 2
Carry two tape recorders, right?
00:11:42 Speaker 1
Yeah, my Internet.
00:11:44 Speaker 1
Go haywire from time to time too.
00:11:47 Speaker 2
Haven’t had men like.
00:11:49 Speaker 2
So you’ve been here, are you still on here or are you now into the song?
00:11:54 Speaker 1
I left CSC in about 1965 and.
00:11:58 Speaker 1
Was involved with the first FM station in Calgary, which was CHFM.
00:12:04 Speaker 1
And that eventually.
00:12:06 Speaker 2
Is there an independent station?
00:12:08 Speaker 1
Yes, it was an independent station and non affiliated, not affiliated with any of the other AM stations in town.
00:12:15 Speaker 1
And I was having a pretty tough go of it and eventually.
00:12:21 Speaker 1
Packed it in, as it were.
00:12:25 Speaker 1
Following that, I had a little stint at.
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CHCR here in Calgary.
00:12:34 Speaker 1
Mr. Ted soskin.
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That was the.
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Quote UN quote quality music station.
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Was at that time, and I suppose you’d say it still is.
00:12:46 Speaker 1
And after that I.
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Did a little bit of freelancing and advertising and that sort of thing and.
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Went into.
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An association with Tony Mayer and Drumheller.
00:13:02 Speaker 1
For the express purpose of getting a radio station and other radio station in Calgary.
00:13:09 Speaker 1
Which didn’t happen but.
00:13:13 Speaker 1
I stayed on at CJKV and Drumheller, with Mr. Mayor from about 72 to the present time.
00:13:23 Speaker 2
So, but what?
00:13:24 Speaker 2
What did your position?
00:13:25 Speaker 2
Go there now.
00:13:26 Speaker 1
Well, I’m not too sure.
00:13:29 Speaker 2
You have one of those too, yeah.
00:13:33 Speaker 1
More or less the.
00:13:35 Speaker 1
Managing the the Calgary office, which is a sales and production office for the Drumheller Station.
00:13:41 Speaker 2
Well, back in the well, you came in about 1949 and that was just really when the private broadcasters fight for a separate Regulatory agency was.
00:13:51 Speaker 2
Finally, coming to an end, you now have.
00:13:55 Speaker 2
Better than 15 years of separate agency.
00:13:59 Speaker 2
In looking at what’s happened, was this a good idea?
00:14:04 Speaker 2
Are you better off now?
00:14:06 Speaker 1
I think so, although many broadcasters and many people in the industry over the years have.
00:14:13 Speaker 1
Had quite a few uncomplimentary things to say about the BBG in the in the older days and the and the CRC at the present time, but I think these two regulatory bodies.
00:14:25 Speaker 1
We’re better.
00:14:27 Speaker 1
Or have proven to be better.
00:14:30 Speaker 1
For the private enterprise commercial broadcaster than being governed by the CBC.
00:14:38 Speaker 1
Which was.
00:14:40 Speaker 1
In competition with the private broadcasters at one time.
00:14:44 Speaker 1
And also their Lord and master, and at the same time being funded by.
00:14:49 Speaker 1
Public money.
00:14:53 Speaker 1
I think we’ve got probably as good a regulatory system now as we had before.
00:15:03 Speaker 1
The PRTSC over the past little while has done some rather strange things.
00:15:08 Speaker 1
Some of them we agree with, some we don’t.
00:15:12 Speaker 2
The you came in also, just as television was becoming established in 51 year and onward, and when radio really had to redefine its.
00:15:24 Speaker 2
Of what are your recollections of those these?
00:15:27 Speaker 2
What actually happened to radio all of a sudden, you cease to be the entertainment medium and they had to find something else to do in order to keep the revenue coming in.
00:15:37 Speaker 1
Well, I think what has happened is since the advent of TV.
00:15:42 Speaker 1
Radio in general terms has found itself in three levels.
00:15:50 Speaker 1
I am as I am.
00:15:52 Speaker 1
There’s FM.
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And there’s the CBC.
00:15:56 Speaker 1
Now, prior to TV, the AM radio was king and had it all.
00:16:01 Speaker 1
It was the entertainment medium.
00:16:03 Speaker 1
Primarily and.
00:16:08 Speaker 1
Information and news was somewhat secondary, secondary to their function.
00:16:16 Speaker 1
You can probably remember as I can such things as the LUX Radio Theatre and the soap operas and hockey night in Canada.
00:16:23 Speaker 2
Which in some ways you’re enjoying a.
00:16:25 Speaker 1
Comeback yes, in in some respect.
00:16:29 Speaker 1
And you all happy gang and.
00:16:33 Speaker 1
Things like the the Prairie schooner out of Winnipeg.
00:16:37 Speaker 1
Those were all entertainment features the the theory of radio at that time prior to television was that radio was not in the business of educating.
00:16:51 Speaker 1
It was in the business of entertaining people.
00:16:54 Speaker 1
And AM radio, of course, was the thing because FM was very limited and few and far between.
00:17:03 Speaker 1
Television came along and.
00:17:08 Speaker 1
AM radio had to take another look at its function.
00:17:11 Speaker 1
I would think that.
00:17:14 Speaker 1
And has been.
00:17:15 Speaker 1
It’s been proven out that they.
00:17:19 Speaker 1
Became less of an entertainment medium and more of an information.
00:17:26 Speaker 1
And background.
00:17:28 Speaker 1
Music medium, such as they are today.
00:17:32 Speaker 1
Now there are a lot of programs on radio, both AMFM and CBC.
00:17:38 Speaker 1
And the reason I delineate CBC is that.
00:17:41 Speaker 1
They at the present time.
00:17:45 Speaker 1
Have the wherewithal.
00:17:47 Speaker 1
To do some of the things that the commercial broadcaster.
00:17:53 Speaker 1
Cannot do because of the costs involved.
00:17:57 Speaker 1
And so the private broadcaster, an AM station.
00:18:03 Speaker 1
Has to sell commercials.
00:18:07 Speaker 1
His function is to.
00:18:11 Speaker 1
Give the listener.
00:18:14 Speaker 1
The best possible shake and so far as music is concerned and also information and commercials are.
00:18:20 Speaker 1
As much a part of the information package as is news, as far as I’m concerned anyway.
00:18:27 Speaker 1
And you have your sportscasts and you have your hockey games broadcast here and there and.
00:18:34 Speaker 1
Generally speaking, it is.
00:18:37 Speaker 1
And information.
00:18:41 Speaker 1
With background music.
00:18:45 Speaker 1
Of various.
00:18:46 Speaker 1
Features thrown in from time to time.
00:18:48 Speaker 1
Like talk shows and that sort of thing.
00:18:51 Speaker 1
AM or rather FM radio.
00:18:54 Speaker 1
It is receiving quite a bit of attention these days from the PRTSC.
00:19:03 Speaker 1
4:00 AM or FM has quite a lot of.
00:19:07 Speaker 1
Or multitudes of regulations for FM stations at the present time, and probably will be a few more.
00:19:16 Speaker 1
But I think FM.
00:19:18 Speaker 1
Probably comes as close to being.
00:19:21 Speaker 1
And entertainment media.
00:19:23 Speaker 1
As opposed to information.
00:19:25 Speaker 1
As am used to be before.
00:19:30 Speaker 1
And then, of course, the CBC.
00:19:32 Speaker 1
And in so far as Calgary is concerned, the station here bills itself as information radio.
00:19:39 Speaker 1
And here again they do a very excellent job.
00:19:44 Speaker 1
In that in that area.
00:19:47 Speaker 1
They they try to.
00:19:50 Speaker 1
Maybe they try to be all things to all people, and of course you can’t succeed in that, but they do.
00:19:54 Speaker 1
A pretty good job nonetheless.
00:19:56 Speaker 1
They have everything from jazz to classical or western.
00:20:01 Speaker 1
The CBC and of course, all kinds of talks and discussions and.
00:20:06 Speaker 1
And information on subjects of science.
00:20:11 Speaker 1
So I think really.
00:20:14 Speaker 1
In a major market in Canada, anywhere in Canada, the public is being well served.
00:20:21 Speaker 1
By the electronic media.
00:20:26 Speaker 1
I think that we’re probably the best informed people.
00:20:31 Speaker 1
Including the Americans of anybody in on the.
00:20:34 Speaker 2
Face of the Earth was certainly the most talked at group of people, right?
00:20:38 Speaker 2
I was wondering, you mentioned the FM regulations and of course they have now.
00:20:43 Speaker 2
Ordered something called foreground programming.
00:20:47 Speaker 2
You mentioned also that you thought it was.
00:20:50 Speaker 2
Excuse me as close to an entertainment medium as radio can be.
00:20:54 Speaker 2
You know as the.
00:20:56 Speaker 2
Are these regulations in the foreground programming, or are we going to see maybe?
00:21:02 Speaker 2
A resurgence in some form, if you like, of the variety show or the the musical show in in the old life talent terms.
00:21:11 Speaker 2
Or is anything going to happen because of the new regulations?
00:21:14 Speaker 1
I think something is going to happen and it’s going to happen probably for the better.
00:21:21 Speaker 1
Because the.
00:21:25 Speaker 1
Any of the.
00:21:26 Speaker 1
Information I’ve received lately on.
00:21:30 Speaker 1
On the FM regulations, I don’t pretend to understand them because I haven’t been that involved in them.
00:21:36 Speaker 1
However, some of the most recent applications for FM licenses stress the involvement of the public.
00:21:48 Speaker 1
In the production of their programs, there’s a lot more in depth discussion programs on subjects of all kinds, their musical program.
00:22:01 Speaker 1
When they delineate what they’re going to do in in a certain area of musical programming.
00:22:07 Speaker 1
This is rather specific.
00:22:10 Speaker 1
And instead of just putting on 1/2 an hour or an hour of jazz music.
00:22:18 Speaker 1
And with a few commercials thrown in and some guy saying here is Good Ellington with sophisticated lady they want.
00:22:27 Speaker 1
Appear to want.
00:22:32 Speaker 1
To be much more knowledgeable on new gallington and all the other people involved in the production of this program.
00:22:42 Speaker 1
And that goes for discussion programs and.
00:22:46 Speaker 1
Programs of other.
00:22:48 Speaker 2
Cultural nature, but perhaps not so much when you started, but certainly earlier in radio days, it seemed to be a an outlet, if you like, for an awful lot of local talent, you know the local band, the local singer, the choir group.
00:23:04 Speaker 2
All wound up getting in radio if they so desired.
00:23:08 Speaker 2
Are we going to see some of this come back maybe to FM radio?
00:23:12 Speaker 1
Oh, I have no doubt that it will come back to a FM radio.
00:23:17 Speaker 1
I doubt that it will be in the major Bose talent category.
00:23:22 Speaker 1
I hope not.
00:23:24 Speaker 1
I think that.
00:23:26 Speaker 1
FM will be required to expose the public.
00:23:32 Speaker 1
To those who have arrived.
00:23:36 Speaker 1
Or just about arrived in a certain area of expertise in music or drama, or some of the other disciplines.
00:23:44 Speaker 2
Drama would be an interesting thing, as you point out, there still is someone on CBC, but it has totally disappeared from any of any other radio website.
00:23:56 Speaker 2
And I’m just wondering if this might make some.
00:23:58 Speaker 1
I’m sure it will.
00:24:00 Speaker 1
And I’m sure that places like Calgary who have.
00:24:07 Speaker 1
Quite a good theater background in little theater and that sort of thing in Calgary, we’ll be able to develop radio drama.
00:24:20 Speaker 1
As long as well as the university and and other areas, they should be able to develop radio drama.
00:24:28 Speaker 1
To come back to.
00:24:30 Speaker 1
A pretty high level of excellence.
00:24:32 Speaker 2
Let me bounce something off you.
00:24:34 Speaker 2
I’m asking this more for personal reasons than anything else.
00:24:37 Speaker 2
Just an idea that’s been kicking around the back of my head for a long.
00:24:41 Speaker 2
You have radio has knowing talking about EM has large audiences between 7:00 and 9:00, four and six, the drive time or 7 and 9.
00:24:50 Speaker 2
I don’t think it’s the right time, but would you see any possibility of?
00:24:54 Speaker 2
Or 1015 minutes even variety shows and or programs of the entertainment nature since where we seem to be spending a lot of time in our cars anyway, and the radio, I would think the majority of radios in this country are are in cars.
00:25:09 Speaker 2
Would this be a gamble?
00:25:10 Speaker 2
Do you think it would be a reasonable effort for someone to make at some point?
00:25:15 Speaker 2
Try and put a program back in that area.
00:25:20 Speaker 1
I don’t really think so.
00:25:23 Speaker 1
Because the the theory I personally have is that if you’re putting on a radio program.
00:25:31 Speaker 1
99% devoted to the ethic of entertaining.
00:25:36 Speaker 1
As opposed to informing.
00:25:40 Speaker 1
Then you have to have or should have.
00:25:44 Speaker 1
A fairly concentrated.
00:25:50 Speaker 1
Listenership. Somebody’s going to sit there and listen to it very carefully.
00:25:55 Speaker 1
And I don’t think anyone driving his car in the rush of today’s traffic going or coming from work can concentrate on an Ibsen play or even a WO Mitchell play.
00:26:10 Speaker 2
I wouldn’t think.
00:26:11 Speaker 2
All that heavy, I was thinking more of a variety type program.
00:26:15 Speaker 1
There, there might be some.
00:26:17 Speaker 1
Possibility there, but I the way ratings are and the rapidity of information and the.
00:26:26 Speaker 1
Compressed time allowed for any station to.
00:26:32 Speaker 1
Keep and build its audience at those prime times of the day.
00:26:37 Speaker 1
You’ve got to put out an awful lot of stuff.
00:26:41 Speaker 1
Of interest to a great many people in a limited length of time.
00:26:47 Speaker 1
That’s why in many cases.
00:26:51 Speaker 1
Some of the devotional programs that used to be on radio in the morning.
00:26:57 Speaker 1
Are no longer on radio.
00:27:01 Speaker 1
As a matter of fact, they’re not on in the morning or nor are they.
00:27:04 Speaker 1
On at noon or any other time in the major markets, religious programs or.
00:27:11 Speaker 1
And a thing of the past that appears in the major markets.
00:27:16 Speaker 2
And it’s going to be moved over to television and.
00:27:18 Speaker 1
Sunday to the smaller markets such as the Drumheller and some of these smaller places, and one of the rural areas of the West.
00:27:26 Speaker 2
If this isn’t as much a reflection of the urban lifestyle, and then we go where we.
00:27:30 Speaker 1
I think probably it is, but I think it’s more a reflection on.
00:27:35 Speaker 1
The concern that commercial stations have with with ratings.
00:27:41 Speaker 1
You stick a religious program in at 10:00 o’clock in the morning.
00:27:43 Speaker 1
You don’t get anybody back until 2:00 o’clock.
00:27:45 Speaker 1
In the afternoon.
00:27:46 Speaker 2
That’s true.
00:27:47 Speaker 1
You know that’s that’s that’s the theory.
00:27:49 Speaker 1
They work on whether it’s true or not.
00:27:52 Speaker 1
I wouldn’t like to say that it was true.
00:27:54 Speaker 1
In all.
00:27:54 Speaker 1
Cases, but generally speaking, that’s the theory they.
00:27:59 Speaker 2
Well, what were some of the other you mentioned the Prairie schooner and you mentioned your old timers program.
00:28:03 Speaker 2
What were some of the other programs you were doing in, in the early 50s when you came here?
00:28:08 Speaker 1
Previously we had.
00:28:09 Speaker 2
I was doing this.
00:28:12 Speaker 1
I was not really doing the program, but I was associated with the chap.
00:28:17 Speaker 1
By the name of Bob Kerr.
00:28:19 Speaker 1
Who is perhaps the as far as Western Canadian radio is concerned, he was the.
00:28:26 Speaker 1
Greatest classical disc jockey that ever was.
00:28:31 Speaker 1
Bob Kerr at the present time is with the CBC in Vancouver and does his program on the network.
00:28:38 Speaker 1
And a most knowledgeable man in the classical field.
00:28:45 Speaker 1
Other than.
00:28:46 Speaker 1
The general run of recorded.
00:28:51 Speaker 1
Musical programs, disc jockey, type of programs and things like the the old timers and.
00:28:59 Speaker 1
One or two specialty programs that I just can’t recall the moment it was not unlike it is today.
00:29:07 Speaker 1
But perhaps.
00:29:08 Speaker 1
Just a little bit more variety in the programming schedule from one end of the day to the other or from one end of.
00:29:16 Speaker 2
The week to the other, but might reflect the fact that since that time there have been more stations license, so you’ve been able to specialize your narrow, narrow cast.
00:29:24 Speaker 2
We, while in some ways.
00:29:26 Speaker 1
It appears that.
00:29:30 Speaker 1
Directives, or the least the direction that the PRTSC would like to see Radio, AM radio go in the major markets.
00:29:38 Speaker 1
Is that?
00:29:40 Speaker 1
One radio station specializes in country and Western and another is middle of the road and the other does something else, rock’n’roll and so on and.
00:29:50 Speaker 1
Consequently, if there are five or six stations in the.
00:29:54 Speaker 1
In a big city.
00:29:56 Speaker 1
Then the listener has.
00:29:59 Speaker 1
A much greater choice.
00:30:02 Speaker 1
Who wants to listen to rock’n’roll? There’s a station you can listen to.
00:30:05 Speaker 1
And unfortunately.
00:30:09 Speaker 1
Or maybe it’s fortunate.
00:30:10 Speaker 1
I don’t know.
00:30:10 Speaker 1
But in Canada, at this particular point, we haven’t got to the stage where we can.
00:30:23 Speaker 2
There’s. So there’s still some generalization among Canadian stations which you’re saying they they can’t be in New York, where you have 100 odd station.
00:30:27 Speaker 1
Oh yes.
00:30:32 Speaker 1
That’s right.
00:30:32 Speaker 1
Or Los Angeles or someplace like that.
00:30:36 Speaker 1
New York and Los Angeles.
00:30:37 Speaker 1
I do believe they’re all.
00:30:41 Speaker 1
All black stations, for example around owned, operated and run by the some people in the in the the black population there’s ethnic station.
00:30:53 Speaker 1
Well, as a matter of fact, there’s one in Vancouver and one in.
00:30:57 Speaker 1
And Toronto and Montreal, all of which are doing very well.
00:31:02 Speaker 1
We attempted to get an ethnic station here in Calgary and.
00:31:07 Speaker 1
That was turned down for one reason or another by the CDC or the PRTSC.
Part 2
Transcript
00:00:02 Speaker 1
Whether we’ll go back at it again later is is.
00:00:06 Speaker 2
Because you have a fairly large by Ukrainian population to be the major.
00:00:07 Speaker 1
Another one.
00:00:11 Speaker 1
Not in Calgary.
00:00:13 Speaker 1
It’s not so large.
00:00:15 Speaker 1
It’s larger in Edmonton.
00:00:18 Speaker 1
And around Edmonton.
00:00:20 Speaker 1
But we have.
00:00:24 Speaker 1
Quite a variety of.
00:00:29 Speaker 1
People of various and sundry backgrounds other than English or French in the Calgary area.
00:00:35 Speaker 1
Our population here is approaching half a million.
00:00:41 Speaker 1
At last count, I was counting it up not too long ago and there is close to 200,000 people here.
00:00:49 Speaker 1
Who are?
00:00:52 Speaker 1
Call their home language or mother tongue something other than English or French, and German seems to be the largest route.
00:01:01 Speaker 1
Then there’s Dutch and it goes down from there.
00:01:05 Speaker 2
That’s maybe, of course, the the CRC regulations.
00:01:09 Speaker 2
Since what 7072 have also said that thou shalt do 30% Canadian music programming on the right. Looking back on that, was that a good idea? I know private broadcasters publicly, at least most mostly, said they weren’t happy with it at the time.
00:01:26 Speaker 1
Are they?
00:01:28 Speaker 1
Indeed said they weren’t happy with it at the time and.
00:01:34 Speaker 1
However, that was the rule.
00:01:36 Speaker 1
Those were the rules and regulations, and I think by and large they have succeeded in in.
00:01:46 Speaker 1
The best they can with it.
00:01:49 Speaker 1
I’m really not too sure what it was designed to accomplish.
00:01:54 Speaker 1
Whether it was designed to stimulate Canadian talent.
00:01:58 Speaker 1
And give it a better chance on Canadian radio.
00:02:06 Speaker 1
One of the reasons that I.
00:02:09 Speaker 1
And I have heard for the Canadian content rule.
00:02:13 Speaker 1
However, I seem to think that if talent is good, whether it’s Canadian or anything else.
00:02:18 Speaker 1
It’s going to come to the top anyway, and doesn’t need governmental assistance to do it.
00:02:23 Speaker 1
I think that most stations are still having a problem reaching their their quotas.
00:02:29 Speaker 1
And the PRTSC has made some exceptions and some adjustments to this in various areas across the country.
00:02:37 Speaker 2
You don’t feel that because of the requirement that really leads to more exposure that we have that perhaps some people who either might have given up in frustration or might not have made it have made it.
00:02:49 Speaker 2
You know, you feel that the the recording industry has been.
00:02:52 Speaker 2
But it benefited you.
00:02:54 Speaker 2
You feel that perhaps we have encouraged a little more talent development than otherwise would?
00:02:59 Speaker 2
Have had right?
00:03:00 Speaker 1
I think so.
00:03:01 Speaker 1
And for example, there’s a.
00:03:03 Speaker 1
There’s a chap in Canada by the name of Vic Franklin.
00:03:07 Speaker 1
There’s another fellow I can’t quite remember his name even out of Edmonton.
00:03:12 Speaker 1
These people are excellent singers.
00:03:14 Speaker 1
There’s a couple of girl singers from down in Montreal.
00:03:19 Speaker 1
Their first class.
00:03:22 Speaker 1
They’ve got a lot of exposure over the last few years because of the regulations, not of course, in spite of it.
00:03:33 Speaker 1
Debatable point as to whether or not they would have.
00:03:36 Speaker 1
Being elevated to the station they’re now at.
00:03:41 Speaker 1
If there wasn’t a regulation.
00:03:44 Speaker 1
I seem to think, though, that talent will out regardless of regulations.
00:03:50 Speaker 2
It’s possible because you’ve come to know from the deeds of when radio was king of the deeds, when radio didn’t know if it had a host to live in to the days.
00:04:00 Speaker 2
Now with cable and satellite and all of the other gadgets we’ve got.
00:04:07 Speaker 2
Do you see any major change in broadcast?
00:04:11 Speaker 2
Organization issue like originally we had the networks which depended on the large audience.
00:04:16 Speaker 2
Well of course now as you’re well aware, better than I am the audience is being fragmented all over the place both by the stations and by cable and you get satellite transmission capabilities which doesn’t appear to be here along with you know the usual wired.
00:04:31 Speaker 2
City concept of shopping and so on.
00:04:34 Speaker 2
Is this going to change?
00:04:35 Speaker 2
Broadcasting not only radio, but television.
00:04:37 Speaker 2
Is that essentially going to make things such as the CRC totally unnecessary?
00:04:43 Speaker 2
That’s how do you jam a satellite?
00:04:46 Speaker 1
I think that the more sophisticated the electronic media becomes.
00:04:52 Speaker 1
The more bureaucratic the CRCC is going to have to get.
00:04:56 Speaker 1
And I think they’re going to have to get.
00:04:59 Speaker 1
A greater degree of expertise.
00:05:02 Speaker 1
In the regulatory body.
00:05:05 Speaker 1
In order to handle the very complex situations which.
00:05:09 Speaker 2
We broadcast there.
00:05:11 Speaker 1
Right where we’ve. Yes, right.
00:05:14 Speaker 1
In order to handle the complex complexities which are on the horizon.
00:05:20 Speaker 1
I don’t think radio has gone up and down and it was something like the movie house when TV came in.
00:05:26 Speaker 1
Oh, they threw up their arms.
00:05:27 Speaker 1
She was gonna lose millions of dollars.
00:05:31 Speaker 1
They’re not doing as well as they did in the heyday of movie houses.
00:05:36 Speaker 1
But they’re not starving either they’ve made.
00:05:40 Speaker 1
Their changes with these.
00:05:43 Speaker 1
And Uptown one and Uptown two, and all the rest of this sort of thing.
00:05:48 Speaker 1
Radio is going to have to be flexible with the times.
00:05:51 Speaker 1
And I think that.
00:05:54 Speaker 1
If anything.
00:05:55 Speaker 1
It will.
00:05:57 Speaker 1
Go more to.
00:05:59 Speaker 1
Fragmenting of the different radio stations will be entirely different in sound and content one from the other.
00:06:08 Speaker 1
Than they are now and information.
00:06:15 Speaker 1
Current events, traffic information going and coming from work and commercial.
00:06:22 Speaker 1
Will be the main thing and that the music will be for all intents and purposes, junkboxes.
00:06:32 Speaker 1
There is a good question.
00:06:33 Speaker 1
There’s a good word for somebody filling a dictionary.
00:06:37 Speaker 2
There’s some someone who’s called the jukebox of the of the airwaves, and they suppose they’re right.
00:06:43 Speaker 1
To some extent, yes.
00:06:49 Speaker 2
I can’t think of anything.
00:06:50 Speaker 2
Cube just wrote everything.
00:06:51 Speaker 2
Did you have anything?
00:06:52 Speaker 2
I see you went to the trouble of making a series of.
00:06:55 Speaker 1
Notes there.
00:06:55 Speaker 1
Yeah, I we we covered that with regard to the situation with radio following the advent of TV.
00:07:07 Speaker 1
There’s only one thing that I would like to see happen.
00:07:14 Speaker 1
I guess the CBC would be the only.
00:07:18 Speaker 1
Radio organization that could do it.
00:07:21 Speaker 1
And that would be to put some more.
00:07:25 Speaker 1
Of the.
00:07:26 Speaker 1
Old fashioned.
00:07:30 Speaker 1
Programming on that we used to have in the days when we only had radio.
00:07:34 Speaker 1
That was the thing that stimulated the imagination of the individual.
00:07:40 Speaker 1
You could see the the hockey players streaking down the ice, and there’s something even when.
00:07:46 Speaker 1
And just about.
00:07:48 Speaker 2
And the word streaking?
00:07:49 Speaker 2
They’re right.
00:07:50 Speaker 2
Oh, yeah.
00:07:51 Speaker 1
And the plays you could put yourself right in the scene today.
00:07:57 Speaker 1
And this is particularly.
00:08:00 Speaker 1
Unfortunate for the younger generation.
00:08:03 Speaker 1
The imagination.
00:08:06 Speaker 1
Has very little stimuli.
00:08:10 Speaker 1
Other than.
00:08:14 Speaker 1
Those families, which are smart enough or foresighted enough to have their youngsters.
00:08:21 Speaker 1
Get acquainted with the the pages of books.
00:08:25 Speaker 1
Television doesn’t give you any imaginative stimulant stimulant at all.
00:08:31 Speaker 1
All laid out there for you and you don’t have to think about it at all.
00:08:35 Speaker 1
The other days in radio, you had to put yourself in the position of Boston Blackie, or you had to be Tarzan, or you had to be Ahab, throwing that harpoon at a radio theater.
00:08:47 Speaker 1
Well, I don’t.
00:08:48 Speaker 2
I don’t know about you, but I still, when the radio is on, I still find myself sitting and watching.
00:08:52 Speaker 2
New radio you.
00:08:53 Speaker 2
Know as people did.
00:08:55 Speaker 2
You sit in the living room when you watch.
00:08:57 Speaker 2
The video then.
00:09:00 Speaker 1
This comes about because of the fact that you and I are.
00:09:04 Speaker 1
They’re perhaps a little older and.
00:09:07 Speaker 1
Which is just a throwback.
00:09:10 Speaker 1
Our radio today is definitely as far as I can see.
00:09:14 Speaker 1
Background and.
00:09:17 Speaker 2
Information and news.
00:09:19 Speaker 2
Or would would you, would you accept the criticism that the part of the.
00:09:20 Speaker 1
These will move so fast.
00:09:25 Speaker 2
Part of this has been the has been what really was done to people.
00:09:29 Speaker 2
They’ve made themselves a background medium so that people no longer.
00:09:33 Speaker 2
If you like psychologically want to pay attention to what’s on radio, they simply wanted as a background medium.
00:09:40 Speaker 2
We give them three minute, 5 minute news somewhere else, and you give them the latest hit and you give them a.
00:09:45 Speaker 2
32nd.
00:09:45 Speaker 2
Commercial, right?
00:09:46 Speaker 2
So there’s no no call for the attention span, so therefore it’s atrophied if you.
00:09:50 Speaker 1
Like, right, that’s that’s true.
00:09:53 Speaker 1
And this has been brought a boat by the.
00:10:00 Speaker 1
For great gobs of information.
00:10:03 Speaker 1
In little bit.
00:10:08 Speaker 1
I remember one of the major newscasts in Western Canada when.
00:10:11 Speaker 1
I was with.
00:10:13 Speaker 1
CFCN was the weak, cool news at 10:00 o’clock at night, people would set their watch by the week, Google News and go to bed by it.
00:10:19 Speaker 1
After it was over.
00:10:20 Speaker 1
That was a 15 minute newscast.
00:10:24 Speaker 1
And it was.
00:10:26 Speaker 1
All embracing and very complete.
00:10:29 Speaker 1
It does not exist today as a matter of fact, I don’t know of a commercial station in this city or Edmonton either for that matter.
00:10:37 Speaker 1
That has a 15 minute newscast.
00:10:38 Speaker 1
The longest one I know almost 10 minutes.
00:10:40 Speaker 2
And that’s fairly long.
00:10:42 Speaker 1
And there’s only three of them a day normally on a station.
00:10:45 Speaker 1
While QR has.
00:10:48 Speaker 1
315 minute newscast today 4 kenada is that correction.
00:10:55 Speaker 2
That’s not bad.
00:10:57 Speaker 1
But in the rush rush hours between 7:00 in the morning and.
00:11:03 Speaker 1
About 8:30 and between 4:00 and 6:00.
00:11:10 Speaker 1
Most of the stations.
00:11:11 Speaker 1
Have news on the hour and.
00:11:12 Speaker 1
The half hour.
00:11:14 Speaker 1
It will never exceed 5 minutes.